20 comments

  • alexjplant 2 hours ago
    > “I give my wife a lot of credit. She was, like, you should never apologize,” Langley said. “Sure, people make mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes in the last nine years. I made a lot of mistakes this summer. But we do good work.”

    So this guy admits he did things that he shouldn't have then contends that he shouldn't have to say sorry for them? Am I reading this right? Isn't the point of an apology to acknowledge the bad outcome and signal to aggrieved parties that the offender will try avoid repeating the negative behavior? If yes and this guy is refusing to do it then what does that say about his world view?

    • ryandvm 2 hours ago
      Well, at least he won't have to apologize to his wife for throwing her under the bus.
    • applebottomjean 2 hours ago
      I mean, it works for the president of the US. I think this attitude is a lot more common than people would like to admit.
      • datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago
        Only due to the cultural shift over the past 10 years, I would say. You also see it coming out of “streamer” culture, as well as evangelical “prosperity gospel” culture, where any means justify the ends of acquiring wealth - and no shame need be felt.
        • dexwiz 1 hour ago
          Tea party of the early 2010s also played by this rule. Lots of "I cannot recall"s which translates to "I won't even acknowledge wrong doing so why would I apologize?"
          • estearum 50 minutes ago
            MAGA is the cultural descendent of the Tea Party so yeah this tracks. The birth of vice signaling.
          • RunSet 59 minutes ago
            It seems to me that corporate entities will also pay any amount of money rather than admit wrongdoing.
      • toomuchtodo 2 hours ago
        The president is unlikely to feel consequences for the attitude, but Langley likely will as Flock enterprise value trends towards zero.

        Flock Offers Employees Buyouts as Customers Flee - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49762835 - September 2026 (45 comments)

        Cities terminate Flock contracts at record pace in August - https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/08/cities-terminate... - August 28th, 2026

        • tw04 3 minutes ago
          I highly doubt apologizing would’ve had any effect on the outcome. He never had any intention of changing the direction of the company.
        • jmcqk6 1 hour ago
          If there is something the president has truly shown me is that just because consequences look inevitable, does not make them so. He exemplifies the ability to avoid consequences and responsibility.

          I only trust that consequences will arrive when they actually arrive.

          • someguyiguess 14 minutes ago
            He isn’t avoiding consequences. Only delaying them.
            • philipov 3 minutes ago
              If he can delay them long enough that he dies of old age first, he will have avoided them.
        • someguyiguess 14 minutes ago
          Let’s hope so
    • o2359 1 hour ago
      Have you ever lived in a red state? In a rural area? "Never apologize, especially when you know you're wrong" is a foundational principle in many cultures and households.
      • Loughla 30 minutes ago
        I live in a very rural area, and most people are sort of overly apologetic about their mistakes. The ones that refuse to acknowledge their mistakes or apologize are what we call "assholes".

        In a rural community, being labeled as an asshole has real repercussions. A neighbor down the road is moving away because of this. He called the cops on a guy who was trying to catch some horses that got out of their pen when the man looking for his horses pulled into his driveway to then back out and turn around. The place he bought was my neighbor's grandpa's farm. There was an old barn with a wooden door inside that my neighbor asked to buy from him (his grandpa had carved his and the grandma's initials on it when they were dating). So the asshole said sure, for $25k. When my neighbor said no, the asshole burned the door. He's an asshole, and because of that nobody would help him when he needed help with his crops because his combine died.

        Now he's leaving. Community is important when there's not much of it around.

        But I digress. I'm not sure geography or politics has anything to do with emotional maturity.

      • runjake 1 hour ago
        I live in a rural area in a red state and it's quite the opposite. People are perhaps maybe a bit too apologetic. I think the unwillingness to apologize or acknowledge oneself as wrong is a symptom of emotional immaturity rather than political persuasion.
        • jmcqk6 1 hour ago
          It is more contextual than a simple binary, especially the emotional context. If the event triggers their shame more than their identity, you get the larger than required apologies. If their identity is the primary thing that is triggered, they will get defensive and double down. It's not just a rural thing.
          • 306bobby 48 minutes ago
            Yeah that's just human nature I fear. Nothing to do with politics or geography

            Crazy to be self aware of it and blatantly not give af

      • someguyiguess 13 minutes ago
        This is the mantra of blue cities too.
      • asveikau 1 hour ago
        This attitude is also very common for law enforcement or prosecutors.
        • mitkebes 1 hour ago
          In some careers, admitting fault can open you up to lawsuits or additional consequences.
      • drivingmenuts 1 hour ago
        As is throwing your wife under the bus when you get challenged.
    • bko 1 hour ago
      I think his point is that the people that are against the technology will never change their mind, regardless of what you do to assuage them. It's a lost cause.

      Everyone and every business makes mistakes. We don't go on an apology tour every time we make a mistake. On the net he believes he's doing good in this world.

      For instance, a mistake he spoke about was not providing strict enough guards on operators, allowing them to conduct unlawful searches. He's since corrected that and looks for new ways to restrict and audit platform access. What's the point of dwelling on this? Is the anti-flock lunatic cutting down cameras going to read the press release and think "gee, Flock is turning a new leaf", obviously not. It just adds more fuel to the fire taking away from the good work they do.

      • preg_match 3 minutes ago
        Correct, flock is broken at a conceptual level and that means really no amount of implementation details will fix it.

        That doesn’t mean that flock should just keep doing what they’re doing. Quite the contrary - flock should not exist. It is anti-American to its core, and there’s no salvaging it. Flock can only exist if it changes in every way possible.

        Providing private mass-surveillance as a product for our government is, fundamentally, broken. It’s not a good idea, and no amount of twiddling will make it good. Similar to how running a hit-man business is fundamentally bad. Doesn’t matter how many background checks I do on the hitmen. Doesn’t matter if I extra triple check they’re only murdering bad people. The concept itself is immoral and deplorable.

      • lopsotronic 1 hour ago
        Flock's value proposition is essentially Uber's, except instead of evading taxi regs Flock lets your LEOs evade the need to get warrants.
      • monkeyshine 1 hour ago
        Flock does not do good work.

        Flock enables mass surveillance of a type that destroys liberty, and is opposed by sensible people who understand freedom, history, and who respect the brave men and women who have fought for our rights.

        Flock is defended exclusively by pathetic, weak little men who are afraid of their own shadows, and who (wrongly) believe that unchecked government power is a good thing.

      • pesus 1 hour ago
        If allowing unlawful searches to be done is just a little whoopsie, then all the actions by those "lunatics" you're complaining about are even less than a little whoopsie.
  • BoxwoodSeed 3 hours ago
    Historically it was an easy step going from "these people are not real" to "these people are now dead".
    • lioeters 12 minutes ago
      Well they're "illegals", fair game for the tribalistic dehumanization of the lesser privileged others to prop up a false sense of superiority and security. Shameful.
    • bko 2 hours ago
      What does this mean? Flock CEO will start... killing people?
      • natebc 34 minutes ago
        In yesterday's video from Benn Jordan [0] there was a Flock employee that told 911 multiple times "I'm not sure if they are armed." when reporting that a few people were filming from the perimeter of a Flock office building in Georgia.

        He also said several times that "we're under lockdown here."

        /shrug Seems like he was certainly trying to cause some form of harm.

        Flock sucks.

        0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP5GDiLZ1Nw

        https://youtu.be/OP5GDiLZ1Nw?t=1130 if you want a timestamp.

      • buildsjets 50 minutes ago
        If it generates profit, yes.
      • vkou 44 minutes ago
        Do you think he will shut down LEO access to its systems if the government decides to have a purge of the undesirables, or two?
      • alterom 2 hours ago
        >What does this mean? Flock CEO will start... killing people?

        No, he'll merely facilitate that, at scale.

        IBM technically didn't kill any Jews too in WW2[1].

        [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/29/humanities.hig...

      • lawn 1 hour ago
        Many of the Nazis didn't kill people themselves, they just helped in the process.
      • nilamo 2 hours ago
        More like another reason for cops to mow down protesters. True Citizens would never protest something so obviously beneficial to everyone /s
        • bko 2 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • nkrisc 2 hours ago
            Good did not hit an officer with her car, and was driving away from him when she was shot through the side window of her car.

            Pretti was legally armed and was shot and killed while face down on the ground.

            This is all corroborated with video and contradicts statements from the involved federal agents. Charitably they were “mistaken”, realistically they lied to cover themselves.

            There are many more instances where federal agents lied about what happened and their accounts were later refuted by eyewitness testimony and video. Just in those cases the victims did not die. Look up all the cases that were thrown out of court because government’s case rested on falsehoods.

            • bko 2 hours ago
              So your definition of "mowing down" protestors is 2 questionable shootings over the last year where tens of thousands of people protested. Got it
              • nilamo 1 hour ago
                How are people so chill about police killing anyone? These people are literally paid by the community, to protect the community. Anyone dying at their hands is an insane level of failure, we shouldn't need hundreds of examples when every single instance should be an outlier in the data.
                • pesus 1 hour ago
                  They either believe it could never happen to them and/or believe the protestors deserve it. Usually both.
              • malfist 52 minutes ago
                Following your logic, how many people must the police murder without provocation before it constitutes "mowing down". Please, give an exact number
              • cxvrfr 1 hour ago
                What's questionable about them? If people in power see that they can callously murder people and everyone is as apathetic what do you think will happen next?
          • alterom 2 hours ago
            >Do cops really "mow down protestors"?

            Yes [1].

            >The only cases I could find are ...

            I am aware that Google's search quality has gone down, but surely not to that extent.

            Or, as kids say today: skill issue.

            > Alex Pretti who was armed at the time and arguably resisting arrest

            > arguably

            As argued by the people who killed him, of course.

            In any case, ICE are not police, i.e. not cops, so I dunno why you would derail the discussion to ICE if you are talking in good faith.

            Cheers.

            [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7331505/

            • chasd00 2 hours ago
              > >Do cops really "mow down protestors"? > Yes [1].

              That article doesn't really say anything about police mowing down protestors. It mentions civil rights clashes in the 60s and then jumps to the murder of George Floyd and then a graph of people shot and killed by police since 2015 conveniently leaving out whether the shootings were justified or not.

      • monkeyshine 1 hour ago
        [flagged]
    • customguy 1 hour ago
      It's everywhere though. Not to detract from the massive problem of mass surveillance, but just recently when that data center in Russia got, and those derpy images of "stats about Russian" bots were circulated, I saw a lot of "the right-wing support is not organic" stuff.

      Something is driving people into bubbles so they only talk about the other, never with. And both agree that "centrists", "normies", etc. are the most despicable of all. Seems like a recipe for something.

      • datsci_est_2015 1 hour ago
        Idk seems like a lot of cross-aisle discussion happens in this forum. The tech world in general is somewhat a clash of cultures across the spectrum from anarchists to neofeudalists.

        In fact, just look at this thread…

        • twodave 1 hour ago
          My experience has been more talking past each other and being downvoted. Which is why I rarely engage anymore.
    • atmavatar 2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • Georgelemental 2 hours ago
        "Illegal alien" is a term used throughout federal immigration law, e.g. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1366
        • atmavatar 1 hour ago
          "Alien" is the term referring to the person. "Illegal" is merely a status.

          It's arguable that "illegal alien" is itself dehumanizing, implying that a person can be legal or illegal merely by existing, when in reality, it's the actions they perform which are legal or illegal. In this case, the action is entering the country without following proper procedure, which is more like trespassing, except at a country-level rather than individual property level.

          Shortening the label to "illegal" removes the last vestige of reference to the target as a person and further cements the idea that a person's existence can be good or bad.

        • kadoban 2 hours ago
          You are implying that the law cannot be dehumanizing?
        • jmcqk6 1 hour ago
          That doesn't make it exempt from being dehumanizing. Indeed codified dehumanization is one the primary mechanisms by which it is realized.
        • pesus 1 hour ago
          The current regime is openly racist and dehumanizing towards many groups, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
        • ribosometronome 2 hours ago
          "Illegals" != "Illegal alien"
      • arjie 2 hours ago
        That's just some kind of language bifurcation by political affiliation in the US. The right-wing term for immigrants who didn't enter the US through ports with documentation is indeed "illegals", though it seems the word "immigrants" is as pejorative among that crowd. The left-wing term for immigrants, both domestic and international and irrespective of arrival method is "transplant" and is fairly pejorative as well. I don't think "transplant" is any more specifically humanizing.

        It's just that documentation-status matters to one, and does not matter to the other.

        • TFNA 2 hours ago
          "Transplant" is certainly not any kind of mainstream left term in the USA, and this is the first time I have ever heard the claim. The left counterpart of the right's "illegal immigrant" is instead "undocumented immigrant" vel sim.

          It is amusing to talk to actual border officials, because the term in their lingo for people running across from Mexico is usually simply "alien", which always makes me think of The X-Files theme tune.

          • arjie 27 minutes ago
            Haha, I have an Alien Number so I'm familiar with that. "Transplant" as the word for "immigrant" is pretty common in coastal California. Here are a few examples that should illustrate:

            * The Bold Italic[0] - a popular San Francisco essay magazine talking about transplants

            * Eric Adams is quoted by the WaPo prior to announcing his candidacy for mayor[1] (he was eventually elected mayor):

            > “Go back to Iowa,” Adams, who is expected to be a top Democratic contender in New York’s 2021 mayoral race, told transplants. “You go back to Ohio! New York City belongs to the people that [were] here and made New York City what it is.”

            * Great Replacement Theory is reframed[2]:

            > ...multi-decades-old Black businesses and Black-owned or traditionally Black folk-rented homes are being replaced by a new population–some call them transplants.

            I think it's pretty common lingo these days on the left. If you ask an LLM what a "transplant" is in the context of people, it can easily describe the term[3]. I say that only to say that it is commonly enough used as such that it is recognizable.

            0: https://www.thebolditalic.com/the-last-black-man-in-san-fran...

            1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/01/21/adams-brook...

            2: https://ourtimepress.com/say-it-aint-so-developers-target-sm...

            3: https://claude.ai/share/bf6cfb17-314a-4e4b-b3eb-e99bbed07e86

            • TFNA 10 minutes ago
              It is OK to simply admit that you didn't understand the context in which "transplant" was used and its (ir)relevance to this particular thread. To post three separate replies where you are reaching for a way to avoid admitting this by concocting some fantastical left-right difference, is not convincing anyone otherwise.
          • delecti 33 minutes ago
            > It is amusing to talk to actual border officials, because the term in their lingo for people running across from Mexico is usually simply "alien", which always makes me think of The X-Files theme tune.

            Along similar lines, it makes me think of Men in Black.

        • nemomarx 2 hours ago
          Transplant means anyone who moves into your city, in my experience. It has a kind of NIMBY ish or anti gentrification tone, like "NJ transplants don't understand like real new yorkers" but I don't think it refers to immigration specifically.
          • arjie 40 minutes ago
            Exactly, either a domestic or international migrant. While right-wing ire is usually focused on international migrants, left-wing ire doesn't discriminate between domestic/international. It's build the wall rhetoric but oriented more towards localities as opposed to the US as a whole.
        • jmcqk6 1 hour ago
          I have never heard the word transplant use that way. I prefer to simply use "immigrants."

          I have heard liberals emphasize "undocumented" instead of "illegal" which makes sense to me.

          • arjie 45 minutes ago
            That's normal to say "immigrant" if you're neither right-wing nor aiming to use it pejoratively. The blue-tribe pejorative for immigrant is "transplant".

            It's pretty common, I'd say, in the zeitgeist. As an example here's a popular content creator (Conan was on his show): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vQ6TOleoCTY

            It's really not that different in use. A right-wing commentator might say "Immigrants need to assimilate and put down roots here, not just bring their own culture here" whereas a left-wing commentator might say (as you see in the above clip, paraphrased): "Transplants need to put down roots here and volunteer to join the community"

  • everdrive 4 hours ago
    Better not prosecute people who cut down the cameras then, since that's part of the non-real backlash.
    • adjejmxbdjdn 2 hours ago
      True. Such people clearly don’t exist and it’s obviously a company product failure and the company should be paying fines and penalties.
  • rconti 2 hours ago
    > Langley suggested during the session with Rausch that eventually the opposition to Flock will die down: “Whenever this industry finds a highly effective tool, it has to go through this period of intense debate. But then you get on the other side. I think right now we’re not at the bottom, but we’re real, dang, near close to it and about to come back up on the other side.”

    So every other law enforcement tool has also been subjected to russian troll farms and eventually the fake furor dies down?

    Or is he admitting that those of us who don't stand to make billions off of a private surveillance network are actually the real humans here?

  • derbOac 3 hours ago
    Clearly a company denying that the public comprises real people with real autonomy should be entrusted with privacy issues.
    • zelphirkalt 49 minutes ago
      It seems to be a typical case of unscrupulous people getting ahead. The more ruthless, the fewer obstacles, the easier they can beat competition. The more they grow, the more they get affirmation of "doing well", which only reinforces their corruption.
  • tehlike 1 hour ago
    The anti-Americanness Langley exhibits boggles my mind.
    • j_horvat 1 hour ago
      I would say that his views are very in line with modern American values. At least the values of those who actually have power.
    • vkou 42 minutes ago
      Authoritarianism is as American as sliced bread. It's in the country's bones, starting from its founding, and continuing forward through segregation, the red scares, and into today.

      Two years ago, half the voters were explicitly asked if they wanted more of it, and they said 'absolutely'!

  • tastyface 21 minutes ago
    Flock (YC S17)
  • isoprophlex 1 hour ago
    Is this "unreal backlash" in the room with us right now?
  • api 1 hour ago
    Why you shouldn't hang out in echo chambers, at least not exclusively. I'm sure in this guy's echo chambers it's all great.
    • mrdependable 6 minutes ago
      This guy knows he is full of shit.
  • Zigurd 2 hours ago
    The Flock CEO is another example of investor blindness to founder weirdness. It used to be a positive signal if a founder was a bit odd. But compared to current tech industry leaders, what's odd?

    Garrett Langley scares the normies. That's fine if your audience is just cops. But it doesn't go over well with the public at large. By many accounts Steve Jobs could be a raging asshole, but he never showed that face to the public. But if the people advising you are accelerationists with a thing for the antichrist, you're going to be clueless about what normal people think of you.

  • CGMthrowaway 3 hours ago
    As with most antistate issues today, there is a mix of bots/institutional interference (both foreign and domestic), and real people. Both can be true.
    • slowin 2 hours ago
      Yeah, I don't think so. The backlash is 100% real people. I don't know a single pro-Flock person but I know 100s that want to go take them down.
      • mh- 2 hours ago
        Unless you've been very careful to only surround yourself with people who share your exact views, you probably do know some. They just don't speak up, because: what's the point debating it with you?
        • nkrisc 2 hours ago
          Data centers and Flock are the two things uniting left and right protesters.
        • Freedom2 2 hours ago
          I think this point is most accurate. I know a few pro-Flock people - most are either working for a YC company or are in the process of their application.
        • slowin 2 hours ago
          The vast majority of people are not pro-techno fascism and mass surveillance. I think you'd have to work very hard to find that kind of person. People on the left and the right are very united in their hatred of spy cams.
          • xboxnolifes 2 hours ago
            I find it very easy to find people who support systems marketed as empowering police to better catch criminals.
      • zer0x4d 2 hours ago
        Because the rest of the people just don't care about it and understand the technology has been a thing for a long time. You know 100 people that want to take them down but you probably also know 1000 people who don't care and aren't even speaking about it. People just became obsessed with one company, then some agitators sprinkled in a healthy dose of antisemitism plus conspiracies, now you got the public lynching of a company. It's unfortunate.

        Don't get me wrong, Flock did have and still has some issues, just like any other company. They've been trying to fix the issues. But, as far as I'm concerned, the positives heavily outweigh the negatives, even though there are rare cases of abuse.

        • felixgallo 2 hours ago
          I ran an in depth study of Flock for my city. It's been deployed here for several years. What I found is that there is no statistically significant correlation between Flock being installed and any reduction in any kind of crime. I suspect my city is not unique in this regard.

          Flock rode a post-COVID wave of general crime reduction and claimed responsibility for it, but it appears that the only meaningfully effective use of Flock is for stalking, terrorizing immigrants, assembling opposition dossiers, and parallel construction.

          • chasd00 1 hour ago
            It doesn't seem to me like Flock would reduce crime but increase the rate at which crime's are solved. Maybe a better stat would be median age of a criminal case involving a vehicle before and after Flock was deployed.

            edit: i dont know if any stat would work at the city level, the advantage of Flock is the network works across state/county lines. So someone committing a crime in one state and then driving all night can still be located two states away without police departments having to coordinate a search.

        • wyre 2 hours ago
          I think its more likely that people don't know about Flock, not that they don't care.
        • rootusrootus 2 hours ago
          > healthy dose of antisemitism

          Uh, what?

          • red_candle_wax 7 minutes ago
            Its the new "terrorism", "fascism", and "communism" but all rolled up in one for brain dead propagandists.

            You can kinda just apply it to anything you dont like to paint it as inherently bad.

        • slowin 2 hours ago
          Antisemitism? Public lynching? We're talking about a fascist spy company not a human being.
      • bko 2 hours ago
        I am a pro-flock real person. I'll get down-voted and likely flagged for saying this so you may believe I don't exist but I do.

        Crime has gone down considerably in the last two years.

        > The declines were reflected in several of the FBI’s long-term measures. The 2025 robbery rate of 49.4 per 100,000 was the lowest in 20 years, while the rape rate of 36.1 was the lowest since 2012. The murder rate was the lowest in the past 20 years.

        I imagine giving police the ability to apprehend violent criminals through technology is driving this reduction in crime. Not a stretch. You can think that this is not worth the tradeoff, but if you think giving police a tool like Flock will not have an impact of apprehension of criminals you have your head in the sand.

        https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/violent-crime-falls-at-hist...

        https://www.richardhanania.com/p/flock-mass-surveillance-and...

        • arjie 2 hours ago
          Supervisor Matt Dorsey in San Francisco is pro-camera-enforcement and I was glad to be able to meet him and thank him for his efforts both for speed cameras and for ALPR in San Francisco. For my part, I'm not wedded to Flock so if people get upset about the brand name, I'm happy if the government uses Axon instead to provide the same outcome. The use of drone policing, ALPR, and speed cameras has substantially improved safety in San Francisco.
          • derektank 1 hour ago
            Yeah, I am generally pro-surveillance of public spaces and public property, but I think Flock has taken a particularly careless approach to the project. I would much rather have another vendor simply sell the cameras to the municipality and have the government administer the network, rather than have a company like Flock retain the data themselves and make it available to unknown third parties. You can maintain public oversight much more directly that way.
        • nemomarx 2 hours ago
          Take flock out of some cities and see if their crime trend continues. I expect you'll find the cameras really don't move the needle much.
          • bko 1 hour ago
            In Houston, three cameras near an attempted child abduction had been cut down. Police Chief Noe Diaz said investigators consequently could not use them to identify and track the suspect's red sedan.

            Why do anti-flock activists insist that it doesn't help police apprehend criminals. It obviously does. It only makes sense that a police officer having access to cameras that track license plates in real time would help apprehend criminals escaping capture. Come on, you don't seriously believe this. What would have to be true about the world, police, criminals etc of this not to be true.

            https://www.police1.com/alprs-in-focus/why-cities-are-rethin...

            • unbalancedevh 1 hour ago
              The issue, of course, isn't how cameras can be used to help apprehend criminals. It's that they can be abused by people who have access to them, in ways we haven't even imagined yet. People don't trust that appropriate safeguards are in place, and it's not clear how to defend against abuses, or that it's even possible. In a society that supposedly prioritizes liberty, privacy, and innocence until proven guilty, such technology should be treated with maximum suspicion.
        • driverdan 44 minutes ago
          Correlation is not causation. Do you actually have any data or research to support your claim from an unbiased source? A far right blogger is far from unbiased.

          FWIW Benn Jordan, who has his own biases, analyzed this data in his latest video and found it had no impact on most crimes but did have a small improvement in clearance rates for one category.

        • rconti 2 hours ago
          Have you tried zooming out on the stats at all, or analyzing any other variables? You realize there was a crazy spike in crime in the wake of the pandemic, right? Certainly a reversion to the mean might happen alongside the implementation of cameras.

          My own city's police (Redwood City, CA) credited Flock cameras with an increase in the clearance rate from 12% to 13%. Pardon me if I don't go out and celebrate.

        • felixgallo 2 hours ago
          You can imagine that, but at least in my city, no, crime was going down before Flock, and continued its trajectory; Flock did not cause that. Same for, e.g., SF.
          • bko 1 hour ago
            SF has (had?) a lot of car thefts.

            Suppose there was a technology where, when you report your car as stolen, police would be able to track exactly where this car is currently and it's history over the last 2 weeks.

            You don't think this would have ANY impact of police being able to apprehend the thief?

            • simoncion 53 minutes ago
              > You don't think this would have ANY impact of police being able to apprehend the thief?

              Speaking as a San Francisco resident: No. SF cops give nearly zero shits about recovering stolen property.

              Speaking as a USian: Even if it did lead the cops right to the car and provided unimpeachable evidence that what the footage showed was a theft, rather than something legal, I still don't want these electronic mass-surveillance systems to be deployed. Dragnet surveillance is plainly unacceptable.

              If -somehow- we can magically build such surveillance systems to be completely unable to provide data that's unrelated to a search warrant or other such court order, I'd reconsider my stance. However, building such a system is simply impossible.

            • prmoustache 21 minutes ago
              This would only work for a few months until car thieves start having a habit of mounting different plates.

              Obviously the perfect crime is harder to do in an orwellian society. But happiness and freedom too so nothing good is gained from that.

            • newspaper1 1 hour ago
              This is a myopic view of the situation. Suppose you had $100M to spend. What would lower crime more:

              1. Helping to shelter the homeless, deal with mental health issues and make sure people are properly fed.

              2. Build a mass surveillance network at the expense of all of the above.

              Regardless, mass surveillance is far worse than any amount of car theft.

              • Amezarak 26 minutes ago
                The answer is undoubtedly (2), assuming the mass surveillance leads to the justice system actually doing its job and jailing people who commit crimes and not letting them out. This is to be fair a big assumption, because as it turns out, the justice system in practice is highly self-defeating and corrupt. Zillions of violent criminals are let off easy, while people who did basically nothing or even nothing at all are sometimes relentlessly persecuted or even killed.

                (1) has been tried again and again and again. It doesn't work, and when it doesn't work, we're simply told even more money is needed.

                Unfortunately, it's people who believe in (1) who have gotten us to this point. The more criminality increases and basic social trust/cohesion degrades, the more authoritarian methods (like mass surveillance via Flock) are required to address crime at even a minimal level. For example, the famous street in LA where children are openly prostituted, while the police stand by helpless [1] - that's an example where the preconditions for justice and law enforcement have already totally broken down and there is nothing that can be done "within" the system, respecting human rights and due process. When you create mass outlawry, the only thing that resolves it is monsters like Bukele. That obviously has its own problems.

                This is why it is so incredibly important to deal with crime swiftly, surely, and yes, harshly. Criminality is a social contagion that, if allowed to spread, turns into a cancer that requires extremely dangerous remedies like metaphorical chemotherapy.

                [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/26/magazine/sex-trafficking-...

                • newspaper1 13 minutes ago
                  Incorrect on all counts: https://www.numberanalytics.com/blog/impact-of-social-welfar...

                  Obviously investing in social health improves crime rates. That's just common sense (and backed by all historical data).

                  • Amezarak 3 minutes ago
                    About 20% of US GDP is social spending. What percentage of GDP will get us where we need to be? Why does California have so many notorious problems when, compared with many other states, its social spending is so generous?

                    Social systems are not as simple as "give people more money", particularly when millions of people have already been socialized into criminality.

        • slowin 2 hours ago
          The police (and larger state apparatus) turning antagonistic toward the public will certainly increase crime, not decrease it. When cops go to war with literally everyone, the "law" will cease to apply in any meaningful way. A small sample of this is people cutting down Flock cameras. That's a "crime" that wouldn't even exist had these mass surveillance networks not been constructed in the first place.
          • bko 1 hour ago
            > A small sample of this is people cutting down Flock cameras. That's a "crime" that wouldn't even exist had these mass surveillance networks not been constructed in the first place.

            You can't destroy public property because you disagree with a policy. Let me give you an example.

            Suppose I am against abortion. Firebombing an abortion clinic is a "crime" that wouldn't exist had these places that kill unborn children not been constructed in the first place.

            Do you get it now?

            • newspaper1 1 hour ago
              Abortion is not a 90/10 issue. Jaywalking is a more accurate analogy. When you turn normal people into "criminals", the law ceases to have meaning.
    • CodingJeebus 2 hours ago
      The concern with this is that it gives any company/government/etc. latitude to plant paid protestors or bot traffic in order to undermine opposition with greater efficacy in the AI era. Intelligence agencies have understood this tactic for many years.
  • rexpop 3 hours ago
    I'm attending in-person local political organizing meetings and we're all just locals concerned about, among other things, Flock.

    I would like to personally register my own homegrown, organic, hard-working American backlash.

    • verdverm 3 hours ago
      If they installed flock at county board meetings and gov rep town halls, they would know what real people think about their company
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3 hours ago
    "Paid protesters"

    Every accusation is a confession. Flock pays for support. They have a marketing department and they tell cops what to tell elected officials to think.

    • dylan604 2 hours ago
      Can you remind me where I can submit my invoices to get paid for my protests? I must have misplaced my memo
    • boringg 3 hours ago
      It would be funnier if it was paid protesters that they had paid so that they could say that.
      • axus 2 hours ago
        Those are FBI agents, not Flock contractors
  • georgemcbay 1 hour ago
    As soon as you make vague and unsubstantiated claims that people physically gathering to protest against you (or your company) are paid protestors you immediately lose whatever credibility you had in the first place (though you likely had very little already if this is where you are) in the eyes of anyone with a functional brain.
  • aftbit 1 hour ago
    Ah yes, the "all criticism is fake news" strategy.
  • josefritzishere 2 hours ago
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  • Bud 1 hour ago
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  • RAAx707 58 minutes ago
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  • pessimizer 2 hours ago
    You can't blame Flock. They're making the very safe bet that cops are very, very stupid and have a lot of xenophobic, conspiratorial theories about crime.

    Meanwhile, Flock is in and of itself a conspiracy. The only way to fight (imagined, arbitrary) conspiracies is (of course) to conspire. They won't fight fair, so you can't either.

    It's important to mention that mainstream liberals and European radical NATO centrists believe exactly the same thing, just aimed at the people who they're afraid of. Neither side, the social liberal centrists or the anti-social liberal centrists, is going to slow the adoption of Flock at all. Eventually somebody is going to drag out Obama (at significant cost) to defend it in some commencement speech, and he will also blame the Russian Chinese anti-Semitic mullahs, and youthful idealism. To "No Kings" liberals, this will be completely different.

    It's a false equivalence, they'll say. Somebody taught them that a few years ago. Then they'll say something about "whataboutism," and finish up by explaining how two things can be true at the same time.

    • adjejmxbdjdn 2 hours ago
      At least come up with conspiracy theories that cannot be disproved by one of the first 3 links on a simple google search.

      https://apnews.com/article/flock-cameras-campaigns-midterms-...

      If Josh Shapiro is in favor of a ban in his state it’s pretty clear centrists are not the issue.

      • slowin 2 hours ago
        > If Josh Shapiro is in favor of a ban in his state it’s pretty clear centrists are not the issue.

        Yes, but will he actually ban them if elected? It's easy to say, let's see some action.