> The 'else' keyword is probably a literal translation from German (2020)
is editorialised, inaccurate, and very misleading.
The actual title: “if … then … else had to be invented!”
And the content doesn’t say anything about it being a literal translation from German; rather:
> What they do say is that this document was originally written in German and hastily translated into English. I think a carefully-chosen German word was probably translated as an archaic English word and then never revisited.
Wild speculation, and definitely nothing about literality of translation.
As for the author’s description of it being archaic, well, I’d call that misleading too. Bare “else”, arguably (definitely not colloquial in most dialects), but as “or else”, perfectly current.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone considered the options, decided “otherwise”, “or else” too wordy and confusing in its own way, and so settled on bare “else” as the best choice (which I think it is), not how people mostly speak, but perfectly legitimate, and concise.
(In other words: I think we’d have settled on “else” even without the possible German step. This too is speculation, of course.)
The most likely German candidate would be 'sonst', which would be both in common use and short enough for a programming language keyword. E.g. the most like option for 'if-then-else' is 'wenn-dann-sonst', assuming that that German-origin theory is right of course.
One thing that's mostly forgotten today is that German had a very rich 'corpus' of wonderful nerdy computer science words up until the 1990s which unfortunately has fallen out of fashion. Nowadays it's a pretty terrible 'pidgin dialect' when Germans talk about programming and computers to each other (to a point where it's much less awkward to just speak English in the first place lol).
As a non-native speaker of both English and German, I feel a little difference in usage. I liked this bit of slop:
‘The most significant nuanced departure is that "sonst" can mean "normally," "usually," or "in general," contrasting a specific event against a baseline of normality. "Else" cannot do this.’
There is an etymological root to ‘sonst’ that is also the root of English ‘thus’. The German explanation would fit well in this story (but indeed no evidence presented).
Hmm, to me as native speaker, 'sonst' has pretty much only one meaning which is pretty much exactly 'or else'. There's a longer and 'more archaic' version 'ansonsten'.
Else is a given name in Denmark (a variation of Elsa, I'm guessing). At university we had a professor with the surname True; so if he had a daughter, her name could've been Else True. We found that quite funny.
Else If would also be a possible name in Denmark.
But, according to Statistics Denmark[1], none of those combinations exists:
Women with the first name 'Else' 13,047
Men and women with the last name 'True' 166
No one has the name 'Else True'
Women with the first name 'Else' 13,047
Men and women with the last name 'If' 6
No one has the name 'Else If'
I think most Elsies were originally Else, or had a mother or grandmother named it. In Germanic languages the final E is not silent as in English, so you have to spell it Elsie for English people to pronounce it approximately right when they read it off the page.
I don't know if the article writer is north American, or possibly not familiar with traditional/native English, else they would know they are completely wrong it not being English.
There were plenty of long English keywords in early computing: continue, dimension, equivalence, frequency, procedure etc. It seems it was mostly the Lisp folks who strictly shunned long keywords.
It is nor far-fetched to suppose else is a translated German word because that is exactly what happened. The only question is which German word was is it.
I don't know if the article writer is north American, or possibly not familiar with traditional/native English, else they would know they are completely wrong it not being English.
It was this comment what made me realize #:~:text= in the URL isn't some custom, per-site JS hack or a weird way to name your anchors, but actual standard[0] way to link to a text on any page.
Chrome and derivatives have a "Copy link to highlight" context menu, which also adds some text surrounding the highlight, but I removed that since it only has a single occurrence.
You can also say "elsewise", which to me still sounds a little old school, but more natural than just using "else" like we do in programming languages.
It's almost tempting to reach for "elsewhen" or "elsewhy", since we have "elsewhere". But if saying "elsewise" feels like chatting with a very elderly relative, saying those ones feels more like a seance with distant ancestors. But apparently it used to be a thing!
I my head as a child I instantly understood and thought "Ahhh, they mean like 'OR else this happens.'
I have always assumed it was a boolean logic thing meant to help show that it wasn't an AND, but 'or' had already been used as a keyword so they did 'or else' and dropped the reserved 'or'.
When you can touch-type, it's better to have keys spread to use separate fingers. That way, you divide up the work. You have one finger still lifting while the other's already starting the next press.
Try it. What's faster to type: one word with a total of 5 distinct letters, or one word with a total of 4 letters, three being distinct?
I understand the theory when writing, you know: sentences. Writing code ain't that. I'm also not typing on a model M. This laptop's keys press down like 1 or 2mm at most. You actually only need to press down twice -- just move your finger from "l" to the "o" depress/press again for another "o" and move right over to the "p".
Do you reprogram your keyboard so parentheses, square/angle brackets, etc can be typed with their respective hands? Naw. When people type numbers all day, are they delighted to use the row of numbers up top, or a numpad? Never have I ever.
I use one finger when typing "loop", because it doesn't make sense to do otherwise given how the respective keys are on QWERTY. That just means the word "loop" sucks.
Regarding parentheses/brackets, I said "separate fingers", not "separate hands". I do use separate fingers for parentheses/brackets.
The numpad is a weird thing. When I've (rarely) needed it for sustained number capturing, I do typically stick to one finger because it's easy to get lost with multiple. Not sure why. It could just be lack of practice with the numpad.
Usually for speed and avoiding strain you want to incorporate as many fingers as possible. In fact it's a common mark against dvorak online that "ls -l" is all typed with the right pinky (not an issue in the workman layout luckily).
Also remember this was typed with typewriters. That gives its own set of constraints. It's quicker to type two different characters than the same character twice in a row, as you need to wait for the typebar to return enough.
I was going to mention the MAD language by Bernard Galler et. al. that used whenever/otherwise, which I encountered in a book in the local library back in the days when everyone was coming up with "structured" programming languages, but then I scrolled to the bottom of the article ...
No. English has used else to mean "otherwise" since before computers came along. Wiktionary offers this quote from Call of the Wild (1903):
"He had never seen dogs fight as these wolfish creatures fought, and his first experience taught him an unforgetable lesson. It is true, it was a vicarious experience, else he would not have lived to profit by it."
There's also "or else", as made famous in crime dramas: "Meet me by the docks at midnight. Bring the money. Come alone. No cops... or else!" But in other usage it can of course be followed by something. "He had to get to work on time, or else he might be fired."
I don't know if the article writer is north American, or possibly not familiar with traditional/native English, else they would know they are completely wrong it not being English.
Article states else is archiac English but later says someone called it ignorantly incorrect English and suggested using "or".
Ive always assumed it was effectively "otherwise" but shortened to "or else" -> "else".
Given the alternative to use "or" as the first pushback I feel that acts as confirmation. I prefer else because "or" has implications in boolean and bitwise logic that else doesn't.
> > Perhaps it will all come back, but now if you love me, give me up . . . else I shall begin to hate you, I feel it.
It’s not being used in the programming if-else sense here. He’s not saying “if you don’t love me, I shall begin to hate you”. He’s saying “if you don’t give me up, I shall begin to hate you”.
Else can be found in English text prior to computer existence. Else can't be found in a German dictionary as a conjunction [1]. The first suggestion in Duden is the name for alder tree in lower German. Second suggestion is a firstname. If a word would come from German, it seems the first step would be to look up in a German dictionary.
While the look up for history of computer language is interesting, the conclusion is completely wrong.
The claim is that it is a literal translation, not that it is a loan word from German. Ie the Germans wrote their paper for this new control flow in German wenn/dann/sonst, then took their Langenscheidt and looked up "sonst".
I don't think the article author is concluding what you think they are.
The HN title reads "literal translation," which I didn't take to mean "literally".
The linked article doesn't really have a title. The article author states [...] "I think a carefully-chosen German word was probably translated as an archaic English word and then never revisited. Unfortunately we do not have the original German text to consult."
> The 'else' keyword is probably a literal translation from German (2020)
is editorialised, inaccurate, and very misleading.
The actual title: “if … then … else had to be invented!”
And the content doesn’t say anything about it being a literal translation from German; rather:
> What they do say is that this document was originally written in German and hastily translated into English. I think a carefully-chosen German word was probably translated as an archaic English word and then never revisited.
Wild speculation, and definitely nothing about literality of translation.
As for the author’s description of it being archaic, well, I’d call that misleading too. Bare “else”, arguably (definitely not colloquial in most dialects), but as “or else”, perfectly current.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone considered the options, decided “otherwise”, “or else” too wordy and confusing in its own way, and so settled on bare “else” as the best choice (which I think it is), not how people mostly speak, but perfectly legitimate, and concise.
(In other words: I think we’d have settled on “else” even without the possible German step. This too is speculation, of course.)
One thing that's mostly forgotten today is that German had a very rich 'corpus' of wonderful nerdy computer science words up until the 1990s which unfortunately has fallen out of fashion. Nowadays it's a pretty terrible 'pidgin dialect' when Germans talk about programming and computers to each other (to a point where it's much less awkward to just speak English in the first place lol).
falls-dann-sonst
would be more correct, since "wenn" is temporal, like the English "when".
Many Germans often use these wrongly in everyday speech, but mathematicians like Friedrich L. Bauer probably wouldn't.
‘The most significant nuanced departure is that "sonst" can mean "normally," "usually," or "in general," contrasting a specific event against a baseline of normality. "Else" cannot do this.’
There is an etymological root to ‘sonst’ that is also the root of English ‘thus’. The German explanation would fit well in this story (but indeed no evidence presented).
Else If would also be a possible name in Denmark.
But, according to Statistics Denmark[1], none of those combinations exists:
Women with the first name 'Else' 13,047 Men and women with the last name 'True' 166 No one has the name 'Else True'
Women with the first name 'Else' 13,047 Men and women with the last name 'If' 6 No one has the name 'Else If'
[1] https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/borgere/navne/hvor-man...
You'd translate the "else" keyword to "ellers". "if then else" => "hvis så ellers"
Related, the word "or" would be translated to "eller" (without the 's') "and or not" => "og eller ikke"
The author wrote: "I can't use "else" as a conjunction in normal speech, only in computer programs."
No doubt people use 'else' as a conjunction now, due to the influence of programming.
To show the author is completely wrong requires finding pre-1959 uses of 'else' in a conjunction.
"Take your coat or else you'll regret it."
"Hurry or else you'll miss the bus."
Etc.
> if something is true, then do a thing, else do a different thing.
> That's just English, right? Except that it isn't
No, it is English, grammatically correct English. It's not idiomatic English but it's a perfectly fine sentence otherwise.
Idiomatic English would simply require adding an or
But of course a native English programmer would quickly recognize the or is redundant even if it is idiomatic, and drop it.> I think a carefully-chosen German word was probably translated as an archaic English word and then never revisited
This is a weird reach. Else isn't an archaic word.
"Eat your dinner or else."
"If you don't do it someone else will have to."
Plus all the "or else" conjunction examples.
It was probably chosen because it was shorter than "otherwise" and not for any other reason.
No, it's what the author claims to have happened. I am strongly disputing their thesis as spurious.
wenn ... dann ... sonst
- https://aloneonahill.com/blog/if-php-were-british/#:~:text=E...
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33828509
[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/F...
Else, adverb or conjunction
1. Besides; except that mentioned; in addition; as, nowhere else; no one else.
2. Otherwise; in the other, or the contrary, case; if the facts were different.
“For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it.” – Ps. li. 16.
After ‘or’, else is sometimes used expletively, as simply noting an alternative. “Will you give thanks, … or else shall I?” – Shak.
"When you go shopping make sure to buy flour or else we won't be able to bake the cake"
"otherwise" is a more common word choice but "else" is definitely in the active vocabulary of modern English speakers.
> When you go shopping make sure to buy flour, or we won't be able to bake the cake.
> When you go shopping make sure to buy flour, else we won't be able to bake the cake.
EDIT: TIL: Dictionaries don't commonly define "else" as a conjunction, except for Wiktionary. Still sounds natural to my ears, so this is a surprise.
It's almost tempting to reach for "elsewhen" or "elsewhy", since we have "elsewhere". But if saying "elsewise" feels like chatting with a very elderly relative, saying those ones feels more like a seance with distant ancestors. But apparently it used to be a thing!
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsewho#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsewhither#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsewhence#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsehow#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsewards#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elsewhat#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/otherwhat#English
I my head as a child I instantly understood and thought "Ahhh, they mean like 'OR else this happens.'
I have always assumed it was a boolean logic thing meant to help show that it wasn't an AND, but 'or' had already been used as a keyword so they did 'or else' and dropped the reserved 'or'.
sure you can. who's going to stop you?
Such a funny movie.
"while" on qwerty is sort of a chore.
I understand the theory when writing, you know: sentences. Writing code ain't that. I'm also not typing on a model M. This laptop's keys press down like 1 or 2mm at most. You actually only need to press down twice -- just move your finger from "l" to the "o" depress/press again for another "o" and move right over to the "p".
Do you reprogram your keyboard so parentheses, square/angle brackets, etc can be typed with their respective hands? Naw. When people type numbers all day, are they delighted to use the row of numbers up top, or a numpad? Never have I ever.
Regarding parentheses/brackets, I said "separate fingers", not "separate hands". I do use separate fingers for parentheses/brackets.
The numpad is a weird thing. When I've (rarely) needed it for sustained number capturing, I do typically stick to one finger because it's easy to get lost with multiple. Not sure why. It could just be lack of practice with the numpad.
https://arxiv.org/html/1501.05438v2#:~:text=otherwise,-%2C
https://arxiv.org/html/1302.5008v3#:~:text=otherwise
https://arxiv.org/html/1501.05438v2#:~:text=otherwise,-%2E
In fact, I think that's the most common alternative, not "else".
edit: My criticism is for the suffix version to be clear. Unless / else is actually cool.
(But it's not remotely like come-from.)
P.S. in re the other response, "unless" is "if not". "until" is "while not".
I remember I heard this structure at Uni at some point.
I found it strange (merkwürdig) that they didn’t mention this in the article.
I was going to mention the MAD language by Bernard Galler et. al. that used whenever/otherwise, which I encountered in a book in the local library back in the days when everyone was coming up with "structured" programming languages, but then I scrolled to the bottom of the article ...
Funny enough, even though I know if/then/else by heart for decades now, I also spent a few seconds comprehending that 1960 arrow diagram of ALGOL60...
"He had never seen dogs fight as these wolfish creatures fought, and his first experience taught him an unforgetable lesson. It is true, it was a vicarious experience, else he would not have lived to profit by it."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/else#Conjunction
There's also "or else", as made famous in crime dramas: "Meet me by the docks at midnight. Bring the money. Come alone. No cops... or else!" But in other usage it can of course be followed by something. "He had to get to work on time, or else he might be fired."
Even if it hasn't been invented as the author claims, the question of who used it in code first is a valid one, right?
He wrote Either/Or or Enten – Eller in Danish in 1843.
Else in Danish is Ellers.
Or if this other thing were to be true, then bar.
If it’s something else, then baz.
(It'll also let you use "unless ... else ..." - but please don't.)
Ive always assumed it was effectively "otherwise" but shortened to "or else" -> "else".
Given the alternative to use "or" as the first pushback I feel that acts as confirmation. I prefer else because "or" has implications in boolean and bitwise logic that else doesn't.
Why not { } instead of begin and end?
def or fn over function/lambda (or just () => now)
Symbols are confusing at first but become practical after a bit
About TFA: Also 'if/or' would make people confuse logical or with bitwise or, so I guess that's why it was eschewed
Fixed!
Not true. Here's an example from 1876 in which "else" is used as a conjunction.
> My brother is poor, and I want to look as much like him as I can, else he may feel distant from me.
-- George Eliot ( https://www.victorianlondon.org/etexts/eliot/deronda-0047.sh... )
---
Here's an example of "if ... else" from the 1914 translation of Crime and Punishment ( https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Crime_and_Punishment/Part_IV/... ):
> Perhaps it will all come back, but now if you love me, give me up . . . else I shall begin to hate you, I feel it.
It’s not being used in the programming if-else sense here. He’s not saying “if you don’t love me, I shall begin to hate you”. He’s saying “if you don’t give me up, I shall begin to hate you”.
While the look up for history of computer language is interesting, the conclusion is completely wrong.
[1] https://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/Else
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/sonst
https://de.langenscheidt.com/deutsch-englisch/sonst
The HN title reads "literal translation," which I didn't take to mean "literally".
The linked article doesn't really have a title. The article author states [...] "I think a carefully-chosen German word was probably translated as an archaic English word and then never revisited. Unfortunately we do not have the original German text to consult."