The Helicopter with Radioactive Blades

(hackaday.com)

136 points | by zdw 1 day ago

7 comments

  • 46Bit 5 hours ago
    The article is very vague on how the radioactivity allows detection of leaking gas.

    The video at the bottom explains from 7:50 in. Gas pressure pressing on a spring holds a radiation shield in place. If the gas leaks the shield moves and the radiation can be detected.

    • robocat 5 hours ago
      There's a good comment:

        MH-53E maintainer here. The system is IBIS (Inflight Blade Inspection System) and the little pods are BIM (blade inspection monitors). The box is pretty obvious sitting just behind the main rotor on the deck above the center engine. I found a random picture on the web:
      
      https://assets.verticalmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/MH...

      And:

        The IBIS devices provide in-flight warning of blade failure on various models of helicopters. One device is located on the root of each blade attached to the rotor. The IBIS detects a decrease in pressure in the blades of a CH-53 model helicopter. Any cracks in the blades will result in a decrease in air pressure in the blade. Such cracks could result in structural failure in the blade, thereby resulting in a potentially dangerous operational situation for the helicopter, such as a hard landing and/or injury to the craft and/or personnel up to, and including, death. Each device contains approximately 500 microcuries (18.5 MBq) of strontium-90 (Sr-90) in the form of a rolled metal foil, encased in a small stainless steel protective cylinder about the size of the press button on a ballpoint pen. The external radiation level of the IBIS is 0.8 mR/hr at 3 inches in the normal (shielded) mode, and 75 mR/hr at 12 inches in the failure (extended) mode.
      
      From https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-08531.pdf...
      • imglorp 27 minutes ago
        The video explains it pretty well. There's a spring loaded plunger in that IBIS sensor that can be seen visually by mechanics on the ground. When the pressure drops, the plunger retracts, showing a visual indication. At the same time, it also removes the rad source from its shielding when it does that, increasing emissions for the in flight sensor to see.
      • laxpri 2 hours ago
        What does “inches” mean here
        • pachouli-please 1 hour ago
          Presumably the measure of distance from the source to receive dosages under those conditions.
    • tomasphan 5 hours ago
      The titanium spar is filled with gas. If there was a crack in the spar the gas would escape, therefore tripping the pressure sensitive radiation shield. Releasing radiation that can be detected inside the helicopter.

      Wireless systems aren’t used for opsec reasons.

      • sandworm101 3 hours ago
        Wireless arent used because they need power/wires and are less reliable than IBIS. Civilian versions of sikorsky helos use the same system.
    • brudgers 1 hour ago
      That's the problem with Hackaday, it's basically blogspam.
  • patwolf 5 hours ago
    Often in software development I encounter code that seems overly complex. It's not always obvious at first glance whether that complexity is because it's solving a really difficult problem, or because the developers made it more complex than it needed to be.

    Having no domain knowledge of the problems of detecting cracks in blades, this sounds like either a genius solution to a super hard problem, or unnecessary complexity.

    • throwway120385 5 hours ago
      Given the forces involved, the need to avoid wireless communication, the complexity of any bearing with associated electrical contact, and so on this seems like the least complicated solution. You can rely on radioactive elements to emit radioactivity above background, you can build a pretty reliable pressure indicator, and you can fill a cavity in the blades with gas pretty reliably. You sidestep all of the complicated mechanical linkages in favor of a solution that's not in the rotor hub at all.
    • SoftTalker 5 hours ago
      I though it sounded pretty clever. Now, that can be good or bad depending on context. I mean it in a good way. It seems simple conceptually (I have no idea if it adds a lot of complexity to the manufacturing) and rather foolproof. I guess the radiation shield could jam and not move when it should.
    • lordnacho 5 hours ago
      Chesterton's Fence
  • vova_hn2 5 hours ago
    What if the helicopter would have to operate in a contaminated area? Wouldn't it cause false positives?

    > The CH-53 Sea Stallion first entered service in 1966

    1966 is Cold War era, so, I think, an idea that a military helicopter would have to fly in an area that has been recently nuked wasn't totally inconceivable...

    • robocat 4 hours ago
      Assuming only one rotor cracks, then the radiation is from one rotor IBIS and the detector electronics could detect radiation levels that ripple synchronously with the rotor speed.

      The Strontium-90 is a beta radiation emitter.

        The external radiation level of the IBIS [is] 75 mR/hr at 12 inches in the failure (extended) mode.
    • throwway120385 4 hours ago
      Strontium-90 is a beta emitter, apparently, so you could just measure Alpha, Beta, and Gamma and detect false positives due to elevated background radiation that way. If you're in the air you're probably much closer to your Beta source as well so you could detect it above background due to distance. Gamma is essentially light so it falls off with the square of distance. But Alpha and Beta are probably much worse than Gamma in that respect, so I'm guessing this is fine most of the time and then they rule out false positives by looking at the total background in each type of radiation.
      • LorenPechtel 2 hours ago
        All nuclear things fall off much faster than square of the distance unless you're in vacuum. The atmosphere is nowhere near transparent to any of them. An addition to the inverse square issue the behavior of the various types is complex:

        Gamma: Halving distance in the low hundreds of meters.

        Alpha: Goes a few centimeters.

        Beta: Goes a few meters per million electron volts. Most sources don't go above a few million electron volts.

        Neutron: The only one with good penetration, halving distance around a kilometer for high energy neutrons. But note that there are few sources of neutron radiation other than fission.

        Thus unless you're flying into fallout it's not much of an issue.

    • wat10000 3 hours ago
      I imagine that if you're flying through an active nuclear war, false positives from the blade crack detector are pretty far down your list of things to worry about.
      • PowPow619 1 hour ago
        At that point a blade crack might be the best option
    • stackghost 5 hours ago
      Exposure to a nuclear blast doesn't necessarily make things radioactive. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not radioactive wastelands. Even in Chernobyl, the other reactors continued to operate for a time after the accident, and nature is thriving.

      But, the radiation detector is on the upper surface of the rear fuselage. Hypothetical Beta particles from the ground will strike the underside of the aircraft and not the detector.

      • xattt 5 hours ago
        > Exposure to a nuclear blast doesn't necessarily make things radioactive

        Isn’t this neutron activation?

        • stackghost 4 hours ago
          It is, but a) it's a probabilistic process and b) most of the products decay rapidly, down to the background level in a matter of days.
      • lazide 2 hours ago
        Strontium-90 is a major component of fallout and strongly in the ‘really not good for you’ category.
        • stackghost 1 hour ago
          Nothing I wrote refutes that
          • lazide 30 minutes ago
            fallout is present in dust in the air. it’s radiation would not be coming only from below the helicopter.
  • bch 3 hours ago
  • Neywiny 2 hours ago
    > The solution is so elegant it’s still being used today. The newest versions of the CH-53 of fiber optics to detect faults in the newest all-composite blades. The older variants? They’re still going with the nuclear option.

    Huh? So it's not really in use today as much as hasn't been retrofit out. Those are very different. This also doesn't read well. Maybe rewritten without proofreading

  • ErroneousBosh 3 hours ago
    Some really hyperbolic comments on there:

    JohnU says: "It’s all fun and games until helicopter crashes and what should be a minor incident turns into a nuclear emergency where you have to call very specialized decontamination units to remove radioactive material from the site."

    Alan Reid says: "unless they shoot ’em down on your own territory

    then you don’t have a helicopter but you have mini-hiroshima to clean up."

    How much Strontium-90 do they think these things are carrying?

    Do they have smoke detectors at home (I hope so...)?

    • alnwlsn 3 hours ago
      You must not hang out on there. Those are some pretty standard grade Hackaday comments. I love the site, read every day, but the comments section can be... rough.
      • saltcured 3 hours ago
        On the bright side, now we can have another comparison scale, for how many banana-copters worth of radiation a given item contains.
      • ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago
        Occasionally I browse the comments when something I've worked on is misunderstood on there.

        You should never read the comments.

  • fluorinerocket 5 hours ago
    Terrible explanation
    • bigbuppo 3 hours ago
      Hackaday isn't the end-all, be-all authoritative source for anything. It's a blog that, for the most part, links to neat stuff with a summary write-up. If something interests you then it's on you to follow the links.

      This is how the web used to work.