Malleable Computing, Emacs, and You

(yummymelon.com)

85 points | by kickingvegas 8 hours ago

9 comments

  • sroerick 7 hours ago
    This is a good discussion of these principles. Largely inspired by Emacs, I built an interpreted lisp which runs in a web server and stores the AST Postgres. It gives me this kind of malleable computing and a Lispy feel with very little overhead.

    Instead of calling an API, agents can just use functions in a REPL. They can also write new views and improve the program if they run into an issue. Honestly, pretty amazing stuff.

    Being able to design a program specifically for the workflow I want is pretty neat. There's some vibeslop jank, but Emacs is a little bit jank too.

    • dharmatech 12 minutes ago
      This sounds so cool! Do you have this shared somewhere?
  • gritzko 7 hours ago
    JavaScript did this for the Web back in the day. I work on a malleable git-compatible SCM right now. First I put all the performance-critical parts into a native lib, then happily built my own git(hub) in JavaScript. Tastes differ, someone else may build it completely differently. I believe this is the right architecture for the LLM age.

    https://github.com/gritzko/beagle

  • cfiggers 6 hours ago
    AutoHotkey adds a malleable computing layer to Windows.
    • paulryanrogers 5 hours ago
      Meh, it's better than nothing. Though not a great interface or DSL.
      • cfiggers 4 hours ago
        2.0 fixes a ton of stuff over 1.0, but yeah you're not wrong.

        Between custom keybinds, hot strings, and pop-up menus I have literally hundreds of tiny AHK scripts running 24/7. I'm pretty sure there's stuff I've literally forgotten is an AHK vs an actual part of Windows. It's all just ingrained in my muscle memory at this point.

  • kickingvegas 6 hours ago
    OP here. Happy to answer any questions about my post in this thread.
    • CharlesW 3 hours ago
      Out of curiosity, are you now or have you ever been a "Mac person"? I'm curious if you've ever gone down the rabbit hole on Apple's history of technologies for what I think you'd call "malleable computing" at the OS level, like Open Scripting Architecture/AppleScript and now App Intents?
      • kickingvegas 1 hour ago
        Short answer, yes I am a Mac guy. AFAIK, both AppleScript and Shortcuts/Intents are mechanisms Apple has provided to support orchestration between apps. I do not consider them “malleable computing” mechanisms as they do not allow for adapting and reshaping the apps themselves. That said, AppleScript and Shortcuts are only as useful as the support given to them by 3rd party apps, which IMHO has always been mid.
      • gnabgib 3 hours ago
        If you're into malleable computing you'd never have been a "Mac person"
        • CharlesW 3 hours ago
          How was OSA/AppleScript not an OS-level malleable computing layer?
          • SoftTalker 2 hours ago
            I don't know first hand of anyone who ever used it for anything. Maybe I knew the wrong Mac users (mostly teachers).
        • empthought 2 hours ago
          Yeah, NeXTSTEP is notoriously a locked-down, untweakable OS. It's not like anyone was able to use it to program anything of consequence.
    • AloysB 4 hours ago
      Great article, TIL vtable.

      Amazing how much value you got with 400 LoC (even though it's relying on multiple libraries).

      • kickingvegas 34 minutes ago
        Seeing how much functionality I could get from just 400 LoC was one of the motivations for writing this post.
  • __d 7 hours ago
    There’s an interesting middle ground: not fully malleable software, where the end user has full customisation ability but requires full programming skill, but eg the Unix tool model where prebuilt utilities can be composed with a simple syntax.

    Pre-existing (or importable) ELisp functions are kinda similar, just a slightly higher level of user skill.

  • jake_and_fatman 4 hours ago
    Useless without local/remote sync. Also kind of obvious is the preferability of composeable UNIX programs over heavily locked down monoliths, hardly calling for a Fred Brooks style exegesis.
  • 4b11b4 6 hours ago
    I love emacs
  • beepbooptheory 5 hours ago
    This is nice but not even a mention of the rather robust existing solution here with Magit Forge?

    https://github.com/magit/forge

  • pjmlp 6 hours ago
    Yet another one rediscovers the way Lisp machines, Smalltalk, Cedar and Oberon were envisioned, and we never really got it in mainstream computing.

    Nice article.

    • kickingvegas 5 hours ago
      NGL, whenever I work with Cocoa APIs, I wistfully think of another timeline where we get a system-level SmallTalk style REPL and ecosystem accessing all of it.
    • Barrin92 4 hours ago
      I genuinely do wonder why that has been the trajectory. When you look at the almost futuristic vision of interacting with living, programmable software objects and environments that evolve over time and you get a glimpse of it in Emacs, Pharo or Oberon (worth mentioning Free Oberon, fun to play around with https://free.oberon.org/en/ think it was on the frontpage recently), how did we go back to dead text files again?

      I always have to think the "the world if" meme when I think about what would have happened if the whole Engelbart, Licklider, Alan Kay school of thought had won out

      • scroot 2 hours ago
        > I genuinely do wonder why that has been the trajectory.

        The simple answer here is still likely the best one: Smalltalk and Lisp Machine systems were expensive and proprietary right at the same time that Unix and C became free (and therefore ran everywhere)

        • pjmlp 2 hours ago
          Yes, and porting them on top of UNIX wasn't the same thing, while still being commercial.

          Even with commercial UNIXes, it was extra on top of standard UNIX developer SKU.

          Same with Ada, by the way.

      • Jtsummers 2 hours ago
        > how did we go back to dead text files again?

        We never went away from it. It's how a significant amount of computer use has always been. Smalltalk, Oberon, Lisp Machines (mentioned by sibling), they were always minority systems.

        There was a brief time when maybe home computers could have leaned this way, but that lasted until VisiCalc. What sold computers was software that turned them from clay to be molded by the user into a defined tool. People prefer appliances (or were convinced to prefer appliances), and appliances make more money for businesses than distributing programs as a Smalltalk package would have.