11 comments

  • teh_klev 5 hours ago
    • mark_something 4 hours ago
      Thanks. The first article has more info, e.g. that those beetles are flightless.

      But that makes me suspect that they spend a lot of time on one tree, only pollinating that tree, which would be pointless because there is no exchange of genes.

      • dr_dshiv 4 hours ago
        The desperation of the immobile
    • cubefox 2 hours ago
      The second article goes into more detail:

      > To minimize the risk of self-pollination, which can result in inbreeding depression and recessive mutations, the flowers open in the morning and the stigmas are receptive to pollen that is brought to them by foraging beetles throughout the day. When evening comes, the innermost tepals close around the carpel and trap the pollinating beetle. While the tepals are closed, the beetle deposits pollen all over the receptive stigmas. The stigmas then close and the anthers become active, covering the same beetle in fresh pollen so that when the sepals open in the morning, it will fly out and find another flower to pollinate. This precise delay in flower function helps to ensure cross pollination.

  • chabes 5 days ago
    A lot of plants aren’t pollinated by bees. There’s pollinator wasps, flies, moths, butterflies… even birds and bats are pollinators
    • rob74 5 hours ago
      One of those moths is this guy, who (in flight, not so much in still images) looks and sounds like a miniature hummingbird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummingbird_hawk-moth
      • fyhn 5 hours ago
        I noticed these for the first time earlier this summer. Incredible insects! They really do give a hummingbird impression.
      • VMG 4 hours ago
        rare instance where the German name Taubenschwänzchen ('little dove-tail') is nicer than the English name
        • rob74 1 hour ago
          That reminds me that people who hear the word for butterfly (Schmetterling) in German for the first time usually think it sounds extremely violent. Ok, then again, "butterfly" sounds slightly disgusting if you think about it. But TIL that they actually have a similar root: the "Schmetter-" doesn't come from smashing, but from "Schmetten", a word derived from the Slavic "smetana" (cream). Apparently butterflies got their name from the popular belief that witches could turn into butterflies to steal milk or cream (and probably also other dairy products?).
      • 317070 3 hours ago
        For many people, it is the other way around. It is very remarkable that there is a bird, which looks so much like a big version of this butterfly!

        After all, in Europe these butterflies are commonplace, but I've never seen the American bird in my life.

      • neutronicus 2 hours ago
        Finding hawk moth caterpillars on my tomato plant was one of the bigger wtfs of my adult life
        • nkozyra 2 hours ago
          Honestly you're lucky there were any leaves left.

          You must have caught it within two or three hours after its arrival.

          In the US we have similar hawk moths; the tomato hornworm also looks like a hummingbird when it reaches maturity.

          • jacobolus 23 minutes ago
            The "hornworm" caterpillars leave amazing poops behind. They look like (not so) little green grenades.

            Their moths are important pollinators of some nice native flowers.

          • empyrrhicist 1 hour ago
            Once I started leaving just the ones with parasitoid wasp eggs on their backs in the garden, I completely stopped having problems with these guys.
      • barrenko 5 hours ago
        Very common around my mom's house.
    • FerretFred 5 hours ago
      I have to say that if we're also talking about wild grasses, my wire fox terrier is also a pollinator. He collects an incredible amount of seeds and burrs during his walkies investigations and I have to pick them out of his fur afterwards (risky because he gets annoyed easily).
      • rantallion 5 hours ago
        Seeds are not gametes. While your dog may help spread the seeds, they are not assisting in the sexual reproduction itself.
    • HughParry 1 hour ago
      If you push me into a bush then you'll make me a pollinator as well
    • williamdclt 7 hours ago
      mosquitoes too, though it pains me to give them credit for anything
      • nkrisc 6 hours ago
        True, all mosquitoes drink nectar, and only females of some species drink blood.
        • twister2920 7 minutes ago
          and some species' females require a blood meal before laying eggs :(
    • broeng 5 hours ago
      And olive trees have genders, with the male pollinating the surrounding females.
    • danielheath 5 hours ago
    • pfdietz 3 hours ago
      And by wind. The major staple crops are all wind pollinated.
    • cmrdporcupine 4 hours ago
      My pawpaws (Asimina triloba) mainly need (house) flies to pollinate. They make their flowers look like meat.

      I have a couple 100 foot rows of them, it's tricky to get good pollination.

      • mallomarmeasle 4 hours ago
        My grandpappy told me that if you want a good crop of pawpaws you have to hang a dead cat in the tree. I think dead cats were in greater supply back in his day.

        Fascinating flowers for a tree though. Red meat color and odor only a fly could love.

        For anyone that’s close, go to the upcoming Ohio Pawpaw festival! https://ohiopawpawfest.com/

        • cmrdporcupine 2 hours ago
          Yeah I've wondered about just really nasty ass stinky fresh manure around the base of each tree. That would attract flies.

          Probably a flush of nitrogen at exactly the wrong time tho. Most plants respond to that by pushing excess green growth instead of flowering and fruit set.

          • pfdietz 2 hours ago
            Solid cow manure is really low in nitrogen, though, and maybe 90% is organic N which is released slowly.

            Maybe you meant fresher manure.

            • cmrdporcupine 1 hour ago
              Whatever brings the most flies to the yard.

              The farm next door occasionally grows cauliflower. Like 15 acres of it. When that happens and they do the harvest in the end of August the whole area stinks like rotting brassicas and there's flies everywhere. If I could just replicate that experience in mid-May...

      • indoordin0saur 3 hours ago
        You grow these commercially? Always wondering where I can buy good quality ones when they're in season (in NYC area)
        • Alex3917 2 hours ago
          Email me and I can connect you with some. There is a FB group for folks growing them in the NYC area, plus a list of all the parks where they are planted.
        • cmrdporcupine 3 hours ago
          No, from those trees we basically only get enough for personal consumption because fruit bearing (so far) is so unreliable.

          Also, southern Ontario.

      • adm4 4 hours ago
        the little beetle that could, and pawpaw's are self-incompatible. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba#Pollination
        • cmrdporcupine 4 hours ago
          plenty of sap beetles around here, but i don't tend to see them on my pawpaws. they come around later season when my raspberries ripen

          would not rule out the cash crop farming on both sides of me from doing a number on the insects, though i seem to have plenty overall.

          unfortunately an excessive number of japanese beetles

    • palata 7 hours ago
      Ants as well
      • Foobar8568 7 hours ago
        Yeah I was about to say ants with passion fruit flowers.
    • aaron695 5 hours ago
      [dead]
  • cyberjar 1 hour ago
    The giant arum is another example of beetle pollinated flowers. It smells of manure so attracts manure-loving beetles.

    With more traditional pollinators, I've always found that a fascinating example of bee pollination that does not involve the plant taking advantage of the insect drinking its nectar is Ophrys Apifera, which has a distinct bee-shape silhouette and relies on the mating instincts of male bees in order to pollinate.

    • lopis 55 minutes ago
      Interesting. I never thought worker bees retained any mating instincts.
      • geonineties 51 minutes ago
        AFAIK worker bees are female. Drones are male and don't actually gather any honey, but just go around looking for a queen to mate with.
        • kaybe 49 minutes ago
          Many bee species are solitary.
  • mvidal01 5 hours ago
    Some insects gather nectar from a flower and don't pollinate the flower. This is called nectar robbing.

    See https://www.backyardecology.net/not-all-flower-visitors-are-...

    • baxtr 5 hours ago
      What’s the best security control against this robbery?!
      • cyberjar 1 hour ago
        If it becomes a problem I would imagine that most victim plants will evolve certain defence mechanisms. For example, some insects will simply chew through flowers to reach the nectar stores - so I think in such cases a flower would just evolve a tougher skin, or secrete something that deters insects from doing that.
      • rags2riches 4 hours ago
        This is what the shape of the flower and its placement of the stamen and pistils are all about.
      • adm4 4 hours ago
        great idea... How do you make sure there is an exchange.
  • TacticalMalice 6 hours ago
    The earliest angiosperms appeared in the Cretaceous. This is after the appearance of Hymenoptera (Jurassic) and Diptera (Triassic). While a nice story, this needs additional substantiation. An alternative explanation is likelier imo.
    • adrian_b 5 hours ago
      The early Hymenoptera were predatory, like wasps still are.

      Bees, which feed on pollen and nectar from plant flowers, instead of catching other insects, have evolved much later from wasp-like Hymenoptera, after angiosperms were already widespread.

      So the timeline fits into the story.

      • xipho 3 hours ago
        > were predatory ... ?

        Were they? Sawflies are herbivores, and are at minimum share a common ancestor with those that were not herbivores.

        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221...

        • adrian_b 16 minutes ago
          From your link, the bees are nested within Crabronidae, most of which are predatory wasps, e.g. the beewolves.

          So there is no doubt that the immediate ancestors of bees were predatory, like also their more distant ancestors that they share with ants and other kinds of wasps.

          Hymenoptera has split early into two branches, one leading to wasps and the other to sawflies.

          Most sawflies, as you say, feed on plants. So the question is what kind of food was used by the common ancestor of all Hymenoptera, given that from that ancestor there are two descendant groups, one predatory and one phytophagous (plant-eating).

          There is no certain evidence for this, but there are arguments that it is much more likely that the common ancestor was predatory and the sawflies have evolved from that into plant-eating insects.

          There are two arguments for this. One is that eating plants is more difficult for animals and all plant-eating animals had to develop special abilities in order to digest plants. Because of this there are a lot of examples among animal groups where the ancestors of a group were predatory, and only some of their descendants have succeeded to transition to feeding on plants.

          There are much fewer examples of plant-eating animals that have become predatory again, because once some animals become able to eat plants, they normally have access to a much more abundant source of food than the predatory animals, so reverting to a predatory lifestyle would be disadvantageous. Humans are one of the few exceptions, because their ability to throw weapons at a distance has allowed them to become extremely successful hunters.

          The second argument is that Hymenoptera form one of the two branches of Holometabola, the insects with complete metamorphosis. For the orders of insects that belong to the other branch of Holometabola, e.g. for beetles, wherever there is reasonable certainty about the lifestyle of the ancestors, they were also predatory, so it is more likely that the common ancestor of all Holometabola was also predatory.

  • palata 7 hours ago
    Pretty sure I see many bees on Magnolias.
    • Diogenesian 7 hours ago
      Right, the whole point of bees as insect pollinators (reflecting that they are recent evolutionary line) is that they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod. They will inspect then successfully pollinate anything floral over a wide geographic range. Most insect pollinators are instinctually tied to certain species/families.
      • rob74 5 hours ago
        You mean honeybees? Because there are lots of other (wild) bee species that are very specialized. And they also contradict most of the other things we think we know about bees: they are usually solitary, and they rarely sting (honeybees only do that to protect the hive).

        Maybe it's the other way around: humans selected honeybees to "domesticate" because of their versatility (and of course the fact that they produced honey)?

        • ggus 5 hours ago
          Around my location (southern brazil) there are hundreds of species of stingless bees, living in colonies. Many (most?) produce honey too. I don't dispute that there are also lots of solitary bees. Bees are wonderful and way more diverse than people usually think.
          • lanstin 4 hours ago
            As is so often the case with biology on earth.
      • datakan 6 hours ago
        Jumping spiders are smarter
        • Diogenesian 5 hours ago
          Are they? They are smarter than web-spinning spiders but I've never read anything suggesting they are smarter than bees.

          https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn3357

          • datakan 4 hours ago
            Obviously you can't give them an IQ test but all the data I've seen (and I am no expert here) shows they are possible the smartest arthropod out there. There are of course different species of jumping spider so mileage may vary.
            • neutronicus 2 hours ago
              That’s definitely the premise Adrian Tchaikovsky’s Children of Time haha
          • nephihaha 5 hours ago
            I've watched videos of them stalking prey and they seem extremely intelligent for their size. It's very impressive.

            Bees' intelligence relies on them being a hive organism.

        • WhyIsItAlwaysHN 6 hours ago
          • adrian_b 5 hours ago
            Restricting the word "insects" to hexapods is a modern convention that does not have any basis in etymology.

            Aristotle used the word "insects" for all terrestrial arthropods and this was followed for millennia until the last two centuries when someone preferred to use "Insecta" instead of "Hexapoda", without giving any reason for this, and others followed this taxonomy.

            Even so, the exact extent of the term "insects" varies between biologists, because some do not include all wingless hexapods under "insects".

            In an informal discussion, I do not see any mistake in using the word "insects" with its original meaning from Aristotle, which is also the meaning that can be encountered in a lot of old books. For unambiguous animal classification, the word "hexapods" is preferable.

            • WhyIsItAlwaysHN 3 hours ago
              This is a discussion about animal intelligence. Jumping spiders have a different brain layout than bees, which are formally insects. Other insects are more like the bee than spiders.

              So in this case, it matters that spiders are not in fact insects in the strict sense.

              • palata 2 hours ago
                This is explicitly a thread about arthropods, though.

                Quote from above:

                > they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod

          • cubefox 6 hours ago
            But they are arthropods.
      • actionfromafar 7 hours ago
        Thanks, I never thought about bees like that. They certainly can use many types of flowers, as evidenced by various sorts of honey. Nitpick: some spiders are pretty darn intelligent and even seem to dream when they sleep, apparently.
        • stinos 1 hour ago
          > They certainly can use many types of flowers

          Note there are various species who're oligolectic meaning they only collect pollen and nectar - and hence pollinate only - a single family or sometimes even single species of plants. Moreover they are usually also better at pollinating than more generalistic species especially honeybees.

        • yubblegum 7 hours ago
          Now I am musing about spider nightmares.
          • oneeyedpigeon 6 hours ago
            Thousands of tiny humans crawling all over you...
            • amarant 6 hours ago
              Or perhaps all of your thousands of children being in peril, having found themselves on a murderous human, with no obvious path to escape as the gigantic scary human swaths hundreds at a time?
          • ta8903 6 hours ago
            There's a reason the average spider sleepwalks into 8 human mouths a year.
            • yubblegum 5 hours ago
              You really didn't have to share this.
    • globular-toast 7 hours ago
      My magnolia is the only thing that seems to attract honeybees, which I rarely see otherwise. The article doesn't seem to justify the "not bees" part, though. I'd imagine bees can pollinate them too.
      • pfdietz 3 hours ago
        You should plant clover. You'll get plenty of bees.
        • akurtzhs 21 minutes ago
          Lavender is what we see swarms and swarms of bees come grab in the Pacific Northwest.
  • Mistletoe 5 hours ago
    Magnolia make one of my favorite smells on earth. We have a huge one in front of a house we have moved away from and back to many times. The intoxicating smell when I mow the leaves and seeds beneath it is something I want to keep forever. I collected the red seeds and put them in a bottle with alcohol and I go back and smell it often to remember. The house flooded four days before closing on selling it, so we got more time with the house. We are wrapping that up and we will say goodbye to that old house, and it’s now quite huge magnolia in the front. I never knew the flowers were pollinated by beetles or why the scent smelled like that. I collected seeds last year and cold stratified a bunch all winter in our fridge. I planted them this spring and 7 survived the process and are now growing in red cups in my new house.

    https://imgur.com/a/OAHQCW4

  • cachius 5 hours ago
    Living fossils, like Ginkos

    And Equisetum/Horsetail/Schachtelhalm

  • greenlimetea 40 minutes ago
    "Drop the tle, it's cleaner."
  • tmoertel 6 hours ago
    Mountain mints are also pollinated by beetles—and a bazillion other critters. They are extraordinary pollinator magnets. Beetles, bees, flies, wasps, mosquitos (!), moths, butterflies, ...

    A recent study of just a few mountain mint species (https://doi.org/10.1080/00222933.2024.2411072) found that they attracted a crazy variety of pollinators. Check the supplementary materials for the full list.

    • Sharlin 5 hours ago
      Mosquitoes (which are flies) don’t really deserve the exclamation mark, given that the males of all mosquito species live exclusively on nectar, with the females (of most but not all species) augmenting their diet with animal protein in order to produce eggs.

      The long, thin proboscis originally evolved for nectar drinking like in many other insects (and some birds!); its use for sucking animal blood was a later adaptation.

    • mvidal01 5 hours ago
      I have mountain mint growing in my yard and every pollinator imaginable goes to that plant.
      • HelloMcFly 4 hours ago
        I have slender mountain mint and it used to be a popular pollinator spot... until I planted figwort. Never had anything get action like the figwort!
    • vidarh 4 hours ago
      I have spearmint in my garden, and the bees and butterflies are literally pushing each other out of the way to get at them some days.
  • lorreyfum 3 hours ago
    Not old, evolved. Bees were going extinct, remember?