5 comments

  • delichon 1 hour ago
    Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or welfare benefits. It would seem to be a more direct proxy than melanin pigment density.

    But on the other hand, adversity does not equal disadvantage, and in fact the trials that leave those marks -- beneath some threshold -- may bestow an advantage over unstressed peers. Like released hatchery fish have ~10% of the survival rate of wild fish.

    A low methylation score could be interpreted as a call to mature a child's tissues more rapidly by the curated application of adversity.

    • Aurornis 1 hour ago
      > Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or welfare benefits.

      > A low methylation score could be interpreted as a call to mature a child's tissues more rapidly by the curated application of adversity.

      The paper didn't even find a unidirectional correlation between methylation and adversity. They say right in this article that some adversity was correlated with changes they would expect to see with slowed aging (which does not mean adversity slowed aging, it's just a marker).

      Those markers are also correlated with many other factors like the size of the animal.

      It's not a marker of adversity.

    • jmole 1 hour ago
      > released hatchery fish have ~10% of the survival rate of wild fish.

      Is that inclusive of the entire egg->fry->fish cycle? I wouldn't be surprised if wild fish had extremely high "infant mortality" compared to hatchery fish

    • rolph 20 minutes ago
    • AaronAPU 12 minutes ago
      lol, you might change your mind when reparations end up going out to a very different set of people than you expected.
    • BigTTYGothGF 1 hour ago
      That's certainly a solution.
    • consensus1 1 hour ago
      Maybe colleges can just accept the best students and do their job of educating them instead of arrogantly appointing themselves as saviors and righters of all wrongs in the world.
      • malfist 56 minutes ago
        Higher education is the most potent tool for breaking the cycle of poverty. Your plan would lock people into the cycle of poverty for generations.

        Besides, how do you even define "best student". One that scores the highest on the SATs and has the highest high school grade? There's so much more to being a good learner than having the opportunity to get high grades and high test scores.

        • WalterBright 1 minute ago
          SAT scores are excellent predictors of success in college.

          The triad top colleges look for:

          1. SAT score

          2. high school grades

          3. evidence of being a self-motivated person

      • readthenotes1 1 hour ago
        In the USA, at least, "every student college bound" has led to colleges being simply more high school but at an enormous cost of creating indentured servents.

        It will be very hard to to force colleges to downsize to the appropriate population count. Lots of prestige and money on the line

      • bossyTeacher 35 minutes ago
        > Maybe colleges can just accept the best students

        If you want to see what a world where universities do that, check Europe in the 11th century. You might just like it

      • jasonmp85 1 hour ago
        [dead]
  • Aurornis 1 hour ago
    The study looked at 237 rhesus macaques. I can only read the abstract, which doesn't clarify how they determined their early life adversity.

    The abstract doesn't make very strong claims about how much an impact they saw, only that they started to see some patterns emerge.

    The patterns were also not even consistent in the same direction, with some of their measurements correlating adversity with changes that "looked like" the opposite of accelerated aging.

    > "In some cases, adversity-related changes looked like accelerated aging. In others, they went in the opposite direction," explained co-lead author Rachel Petersen

    I would like to read the full paper, but this feels like there are several layers of PR speak on top of what they were studying.

    Many factors can impact the markers they're measuring, including body size, so this paper shouldn't be used as evidence that we can measure trauma directly or anything like that. They were searching for patterns and differences, but there isn't a clear or even uni-directional link with adversity.

  • plusfour 2 hours ago
    So the body does keep the score?
    • inigyou 1 hour ago
      Yes? Always has? That's literally why you heard that saying somewhere.
    • spwa4 34 minutes ago
      Yes, but if you look at it medically the book is still bullshit. The body adapts to early trauma. It doesn't adapt back. That's just not what it's designed to do.

      Even DNA methylation follows that principle: easy to put the tags in. Very hard to take them back out (mostly happens during cell division which happens less and less when you age)

      Of course if you took this message to patients as a therapist, good luck holding a job.

  • consensus1 1 hour ago
    > In this study, researchers developed highly precise tissue-specific clocks, capable of predicting age within about one year of an individual's chronological age.

    So if all of this adversity related difference doesn't even throw off the chronological calculation of age by more than a year, how significant is it? Certainly there could be other effects beyond just aging, but is there any evidence of the actual effect size here?