Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

(davidedmundson.co.uk)

45 points | by jandeboevrie 1 hour ago

11 comments

  • ndiddy 31 minutes ago
    I think the KDE developers in particular have done a great job of pushing Wayland forward and getting features that people want and need added as new protocols. KDE feels a lot smoother and more responsive when using Wayland than when using X11, and by this point most stuff has been updated to work properly on Wayland so I don't notice any breakage or missing features in day-to-day usage.

    > Moving forward with a single code path going through Wayland is going to allow us to bring new performance improvements, memory optimisations, and brand new exciting features throughout Plasma.

    I think the blog post would have been better if he had some specific examples in mind that he could have shared here.

    • igor47 16 minutes ago
      Yeah agreed. I switched to kde from gnome a few months back, and it's amazing how much better it's been in a thousand little ways.
  • alyandon 16 minutes ago
    I empathize but every time I try a Wayland based desktop I always end up encountering weird bugs and corner cases with basic usability that drive me back to X11.

    I'll be sad if that is still the case when 6.8 rolls around as then I'll be hunting for another DE.

    • moritzruth 4 minutes ago
      When was the last time you tried? What compositor?
    • bitwize 2 minutes ago
      Well, there's SonicDE, but like many such projects it's probably maintained by reactionaries which introduces its own suite of issues around security, code quality, and "will this be maintained in a year, 5 years?"
    • exe34 8 minutes ago
      Thank goodness I never jumped back on the KDE bandwagon once KDE4 stopped sucking donkey balls. I just went with xmonad and the few apps I actually use.
  • senfiaj 17 minutes ago
    What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't remain to the top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications.

    Not saying that X11 is not broken and should not be replaced, but many Wayland's decisions harm user experience more than X11.

    • aquova 1 minute ago
      I can't speak for Chrome, but I can right click a Firefox picture-in-picture window, tell it to remain on top, and it does, no problem. I've been using Plasma Wayland for years now and this has worked for ages
    • laszlokorte 11 minutes ago
      I know nothing about the detailed technical differences between X11 and Wayland but with Hyprland for me the PIP is working as expected so I assume its not just a Wayland issue but specific to the window manager you are using? Maybe somebody else can explain?
      • senfiaj 2 minutes ago
        As far as I know, there are multiple Wayland implementations. Which is also not good because it creates fragmentation and potential inconsistencies (some subtle differences in behavior, differences in bugs, etc). Maybe Hyprland solves the issue, but I don't want to use this DE just because it solves this particular issue. I have tons of other needs and preferences.
      • moritzruth 1 minute ago
        I think in Hyprland it just works because floating windows stay on top by definition.
      • yjftsjthsd-h 2 minutes ago
        Isn't that usually how it goes? Wayland is a million little optional protocols, which in the abstract is a lovely idea but in practice means which things work depends on which grab-bag of features your compositor supports.
      • tambre 5 minutes ago
        Gnome has a "Always on Top" toggle for each window. I imagine there's a protocol for an application to set it by default but the OP's window manager might not implement it or there might be an incompatibility.
  • MBCook 10 minutes ago
    > Moving forward with a single code path going through Wayland is going to allow us to bring new performance improvements, memory optimisations [sic], and brand new exciting features throughout Plasma.

    I wish they would have listed what some of those features might be.

    • fishgoesblub 9 minutes ago
      They're still trying to figure that one out themselves.
      • MBCook 1 minute ago
        I’m not surprised they’re not nailed down. But I’d appreciate seeing a “we’re looking at X or Y or if Z is now possible” kind of thing.

        The maintenance and performance stuff is good, but it’s not exactly end user stuff. Yeah you benefit but it’s less obvious.

        I don’t follow this stuff closely so personally I have no idea what kind of Wayland only features could exist that couldn’t before.

    • jebenesty 3 minutes ago
      Did you really just [sic] a British guy using British spelling?
  • skeledrew 12 minutes ago
    I've been using Kubuntu for the past 12 years without any X-related issue, and have and am actively working on stuff that requires it. I guess it's time to switch to another DE.
    • exe34 7 minutes ago
      try xmonad and dmenu. You don't need a desktop environment!
  • mug1 17 minutes ago
    I do like how the wayland usage statistic are based on wayland apps crashing more than x11 apps
    • ahartmetz 10 minutes ago
      Crash reports are only mentioned as confirmation of other statistics, and in any case, the vast majority of crashes have nothing to do with the window system used.
    • MBCook 7 minutes ago
      How do you get that?

      They showed the statistics based on their telemetry tools and said they match crash data.

      Not that it was 100% from crashes.

      Also the fact they can tell which one is in use does not mean that’s the reason it crashed. It could be crashes due to bad network handling or file corruption or something that has nothing to do with the GUI.

  • startpage_com 23 minutes ago
    So long KDE. Xlibre for life.
  • feverzsj 26 minutes ago
    How can I embed my mpv window in other application now?
    • ijustlovemath 24 minutes ago
      Probably with Special Window Settings (right click top bar of your mpv window)
  • calvinmorrison 22 minutes ago
    Trinity Desktop supports X11. If you liked KDE3.5 you might like Trinity.

    Good bye KDE. Good bye Red Hat. We're doin our own thang now.

  • shevy-java 18 minutes ago
    Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11.

    Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

    • segbrk 11 minutes ago
      Funny, my impression of KDE in the 3 and 4 eras was “Wow, this is shiny and sleek— oh, and it crashed. Nevermind.” Nowadays there is nothing I would recommend more to the average user who just wants something normal that works. It just works. What you’re saying just sounds like a pointlessly personal and ideological attack. Against a piece of software. Why?
    • ahartmetz 6 minutes ago
      I don't really like Systemd neither - but Wayland and Systemd are pretty much opposites of each other. Systemd does (too) many things, many of them badly. Wayland does well what it does, but it (still!) does too little. Wayland is adding features and is pretty close to doing "everything necessary". Systemd keeps accreting worse replacements for existing services.
  • calvinmorrison 17 minutes ago
    "We can't promise to get everything fixed in time for 6.8, but we can promise to listen and be aware. "

    What is with KDE and releasing broken software? What's the rush to release when there are known issues?