Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

(blog.kronis.dev)

68 points | by LorenDB 5 hours ago

15 comments

  • Wowfunhappy 1 hour ago
    Any user who does not like Gatekeeper can turn it off on their machine in ten seconds by running this in a Terminal:

        sudo spctl —-master-disable
    
    People will say, no, that’s too big a hammer, it’s not safe… but then, like, what do you actually want? Either you keep Gatekeeper because you like the friction it introduces, or you don’t like that friction and you should go turn it off. Pick one, you obviously can’t have both!

    Of course, you as the developer can’t make this choice for your users… but isn’t that as it should be? The user decides what code is allowed to run on their machines. And the default setting is restrictive because anyone who knows what they’re doing can easily change it.

    P.S. Meanwhile, on iOS there’s no way to install unsigned software at all, and on Android (starting soon) the process takes 24 hours instead of ten seconds. That is actually ridiculous because it’s taking away user choice.

    P.P.S. To be clear, modern macOS has plenty of other restrictions which can’t really be turned off and which I find super annoying. Gatekeeper just isn’t one of them.

    Edit: I’ve just learned that as of Sequoia, you have to also tick a box in Settings after running the Terminal command. So maybe it takes 30 seconds instead of ten seconds. That’s mildly more annoying, but still doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me.

    • novafunc 45 minutes ago
      Rather than just having the options "Done" and "Move to Bin", give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features?

      The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. Not saying it doesn't help with safety, just that it's more weighed to the former.

      • Wowfunhappy 38 minutes ago
        > without disabling security features?

        With Gatekeeper turned off, you’ll still get a warning on first launch which you can easily click through. (Unless Apple changed something in the last few versions—let me know if that’s the case—but it would be out of character for them to remove a warning...)

        The “security feature” you don’t want to disable is precisely the thing you are complaining about, so I don’t understand why you’d keep it around.

        > The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety.

        I don’t imagine Apple makes a substantial amount of money from $99/year developer subscriptions. The App Store is another story of course.

      • plufz 36 minutes ago
        I also have things I want to change in gatekeeper, but that feature is not one of them. Just gut feeling but I would say 110% of all users, would just click ”start” on every unsigned app if it was that easy.
      • ceejayoz 21 minutes ago
        > give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features?

        People reflexively hit yes to these things.

    • ryandrake 33 minutes ago
      10 seconds or 30 seconds, it's just too much friction to ask end users to do. I actually develop on a Mac, but I've written off Apple as a target system for hobby/open source projects. Between quarantine, code signing, and notarizing (which requires $99 a year), it's just not worth it. Good for Apple users if they like this shit--I'm just not going to bother with distributing to the platform anymore.

      macOS is slowly getting like Windows, where, on a fresh install you have to go through and turn off all sorts of unwanted software just to have a sane environment where you, the user, are actually controlling your computer.

    • wetpaws 1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • hermitcrab 7 minutes ago
    I have been developing software for Macs and PCs as an Indie for 20 years now. I sympathize with the author of the post. You get the feeling that Apple thinks you should be grateful that they allow you to develop apps for their platform.

    The author didn't mention Apple's contempt for backward compatibility. Apple like to regularly nuke their entire developer system from orbit. Try running an app developed 10 years ago on the latest version of macOS. It probably won't run.

    Microsoft are much better at backward compatibility and they don't force you to join a developer program. But you get totally reamed every time you have to update your authenticode digital certificate for Windows. Just the digital certificate will cost you more than $99 per year. It is a total racket.

  • hmokiguess 26 minutes ago
    Tangential but this made me appreciate how Gatekeeper is perhaps a notorious example of a great naming choice for a piece of software.
  • TrajansRow 42 minutes ago
    So, Linux gets a free pass for requiring chmod +x to run his tool, but needing to run xattr on MacOS is somehow worthy of an entire blog post to complain about it?

    Serious question - Is it really true that Windows 11 will run an untrusted .exe without a warning?

    • electroly 3 minutes ago
      > Is it really true that Windows 11 will run an untrusted .exe without a warning?

      Absolutely not, to the point that the frequency of security warnings on Windows is a serious problem for developers. The SmartScreen prompt requires multiple non-intuitive clicks to pass, and that's despite your EXE being signed.

    • kingforaday 25 minutes ago
      By default Windows 11 will not run an untrusted .exe/PE file - it's governed by Microsoft Defender SmartScreen that will present a pop-up scaring people away and it actually isn't intuitive to click-through to run the program unless you've done it before.
    • MrGilbert 34 minutes ago
      You can configure it in a way that it won't allow you to run it at all, but out of the box, you will receive a message which forces you through three clicks. Enough to scare off people with no deep knowledge.

      And yes, you can turn all of that off.

      • TrajansRow 20 minutes ago
        Why isn't the author getting that warning then? Is it because he's only testing the tool on the same machine that it was built on?
  • arusahni 1 hour ago
    My favorite is when someone discovers they haven't yet granted Zoom screensharing permission, and that they need to exit the call to re-launch the application with the permission granted.
  • erelong 12 minutes ago
    It's a backwards walled garden which I mostly avoid to avoid problems like this
  • petra303 1 hour ago
    > I can use SmartID to verify my ID (and age) in about 20 seconds when buying an energy drink at the local grocery store

    Where do you have to show ID for that??

  • bloppe 1 hour ago
    I don't get the part about Homebrew. If you're using Homebrew, it doesn't make a ton of sense to use Itch.io. Just use Homebrew. Seems like a more appropriate place to distribute a dev tool anyway. You could set up a patreon and print a link to it when appropriate. That's basically what Vim does.

    I agree that Apple is dumb of course.

  • avhception 1 hour ago
    > I'm sure that other countries also have plenty of similar services for ID and age verification

    laughs in Bundesdruckerei

  • a2tech 1 hour ago
    Try to open the file, say ok to the ‘can’t check for malware’ prompt, go to settings, security, approve running the software.

    Annoying, but if you’re delivering your app to semi-technical users, not really a problem.

  • LoganDark 19 minutes ago
    Apple's ID verification failed for me and I am now banned for life. There is no opportunity to appeal this or to ever participate in the Developer Program for me. Which sucks because I am now permanently locked out of developing seriously for any of the Apple ecosystem, ever.
  • stephc_int13 45 minutes ago
    I am not entirely against the whole notarization thing.

    If it is good for the end-user, it is usually also good for the ecosystem a a whole, trust is valuable.

    But ffs, they are rich enough to make this a lot less painful and hostile for developers.

    And this is not a new thing, I used to develop games for iOS, from the very beginning, and while the process somewhat simplified over time, it was a huge cortisol inducing process, not to mention the regular forced OS+SDK updates where the procedures changes almost every time and could fail in not-so-evident ways.

  • syassami 1 hour ago
    Siri has the same effect.
  • drcongo 27 minutes ago
    I went through this recently. Got as far as verifying my identity, which Apple happily accepted as verified from my UK driving license. Unfortunately, they then automatically set my first and last name from that identity verification step, and some how managed to use a section of my driving license number as my surname - a string of random uppercase letters and numbers - and it's impossible to edit it. So fuck them, that's $99 they've lost.
  • dcrazy 1 hour ago
    Notarize the application and staple the receipt to your app bundle. It won’t trigger the Gatekeeper warning.
    • gumby271 1 hour ago
      Doesn't that still require going though all the hoops that they were struggling with, or is this a different verification flow with Apple?
    • fg137 51 minutes ago
      You talk as if the author doesn't know that.
    • phoyd 1 hour ago
      That's literally what this post is about.
      • dcrazy 22 minutes ago
        Sorry, it was meant to be a reply to a comment.