Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

43 points | by khoury 3 days ago

18 comments

  • protocolture 38 minutes ago
    When I did phone support for the fruit company there was a woman who would come back to me time and again with roughly the same issue.

    She had some form of extreme palsy, and her kids lived on a different continent.

    What she needed, was someone to talk to her as she tried to input her password the 10 or so times it would take her to get it entered correctly.

    If she did it herself, she would become unsure that she was using the correct password, and give up because she was second guessing herself.

    If she asked a nurse to help, the nurse would need to bail halfway through the process and address some other requirement.

    In a separate incarnation, I was helping a 90 year old gentleman, who was providing free legal support for the organisation, to log on to his laptop. We had a 60 day password reset cycle. This gentleman would only attend the office every month. So every other visit required a password reset. He would berate me as he went, like the guy was a massive d bag. But my understanding was that he had chronic arthritis in his hands, so this process was very painful for him.

    I think the best workflow would be to use login codes and eschew passwords entirely. Definitely dont have mandatory password resets. I think the initial Passcode enrollment step might rule passcodes out but I have only really dealt with them on the MS side.

    That said, you need a really good non password backstop for login codes, because in my experience, elderly people tend to replace phones/numbers/laptops/email addresses quite frequently too. I used to keep a folder in my password vault for my grandmother so I could recover her email/facebook, but not before she ended up with 3 email accounts and facebook pages.

    Biometric Authenticator App? IE key recovery / load to a new phone is biometric, but otherwise it just prompts a 6 digit code on login? I think younger generations have a better sense of "I am X, but my email controls Y" where older people are like "I am me, so give me my emails" and something that is unequivocally "Me" like biometrics might be the best way to meet them where they are.

    Just my 2 cents.

    • chanux 27 minutes ago
      On forced password resets, the NIST guidelines are clear. But alas, this kind of news travel very VERY slowly it seems. Even the large organisations that "care deeply" about security seem to miss the memos. Gets my goat all the time.

      Thanks for the real world stories on people who are actually, physically challenged.

  • gucci-on-fleek 1 hour ago
    I help my grandparents out with computer stuff quite a bit, but I live far away, so I usually have to help over the phone. So having an interface that you can easily describe over the phone is pretty important to me.

    When I try to sign in to most apps on my TV, it usually displays an code that you can type in on another device so that you don't have to type in a long password using the D-pad on the remote. Could you maybe implement something similar for your website? This way, my grandmother could just call and read me a code, and then I could handle the sign in remotely. As long as you only need to sign in ~once a year, this would be my preferred option.

    Not all seniors have trusted friends/family who can help them, but lots do, so making it easier for the helpers will in turn make it easier for the seniors. Plus, there's no phishing risk for the senior with this method, so it's a relatively secure option too. (There is a phishing risk for the helper, but presumably they're the least vulnerable person in this scenario)

  • magnetowasright 41 minutes ago
    Instructions on how to create and use a bookmark can help as far as the domain/getting to log in goes. I know nobody RTFMs but if they've got instructions they can follow for that, they'll only need to read it once (hopefully). Hopefully, that will reduce the level of frustration before they try to log in.

    Is your product a simple TODO list? Is it a health diary with loads of sensitive information? Is it for storing nuclear codes? Is this something users typically use on shared computers? On their phones? When you consider whether or not some of the other commenters' suggestions for reducing complexity of authc and potentially account recovery are reasonable, you need to keep that context in mind. It's hard to make decent suggestions without that context, imo.

    Check WCAG's recommendations around accessibility. Start with cognitive and vision, and make sure to check out sections around designing and interacting with forms, but make sure to have a browse around broadly.

    The UK government's style guides have some thoughtful advice around usability and accessibility. [0][1]

    [0]: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/style-guide [1]: https://design-system.service.gov.uk/

  • aryehof 16 minutes ago
    I wonder about a scheme using public key encryption where a scannable code (public key of the pair) is displayed on the log-in screen, where one has an app on a phone that can match it and send an authorization to the site for login.

    Moves the complexity to unlocking a phone and starting an app.

  • aarreedd 2 hours ago
    Facebook must have optimized for this. Do whatever they do.

    And make it so they don't have to log back in frequently.

    • Gigachad 1 hour ago
      Login is probably the number 1 issue I have seen with old people. They generally have a book of passwords where most of them are simple or reused. And if they get logged out it's a nightmare to get back in.

      I'd suggest not having a password at all. Either use SMS/Email codes, or Passkeys.

  • aryehof 18 minutes ago
    I wonder about a scheme using public key encryption where a scannable code is displayed on the log-in screen, where one has an app on a phone that can match it and send an authorization to the site for login.

    Moves the complexity to unlocking a phone and starting an app.

  • wonger_ 1 hour ago
    I like the AAA WCAG recommendation. I'd also recommend from my casual experience listening to lots of old people...

    - a large font size by default, and maybe a font size slider on the homepage. Test everything at 200-300% scale as WCAG recommends

    - don't change the UI! Or change as little as possible, at least for existing users. Which kinda upturns the whole always-updating nature of web SaaS but I think it can be done

    - hire a good designer who can streamline your UX and screens and keep only the bare minimum features

    - maybe offer human support? Like a phone number? Probably unreasonable for you tho

    Wish I had ideas for simpler login and auth.

    Have you found any successful design strategies in your 10 years? Any insights from user testing?

  • chvid 23 minutes ago
    Save their auth in local storage (or a bookmarked url) and don’t make them login again once they are setup? And buy an easy to remember domain name for your app.
  • troymc 2 hours ago
    I can relate because my dad is 84 and he really struggles with simple things like entering a password to sign in to Gmail. He forgets what he did last time and so I'm back to explaining how moving his mouse causes the pointy-arrow thing move around on the screen, to get it pointed at the wide rectangle near the middle of the screen, etc. No UI library is going to solve his struggles.

    I solved most of the sign-in problem for my dad by picking a simpler browser than Google Chrome, and by tweaking his browser settings to be just-so. That's not going to be much help for you, the website creator...

    Maybe allow passkeys for login? These days, passkeys usually get stored/supplied by the underlying OS. (By usually, I mean that's the statistically most common source of the passkey today. They can also come from a browser plugin or a hardware key.)

    • simonw 2 hours ago
      I worry that passkeys are going to confuse the heck out of less technically sophisticated users the moment they hit an edge cases, and I bet they can find edge cases.
      • doubled112 2 hours ago
        I can't think of any two sites that work the same way once you start using them. It seemed like every service was its own edge case.
  • paulfharrison 1 hour ago
    My dad is in his 80s. He keeps careful notes on how to use devices like tablets and TVs. There might be a touch of engineer-brain at work here, but the struggle is very real. He generally wouldn't take in all of the text and symbols on a screen if there is a lot of going on, or might get hung up on the wrong parts of it. He generally wouldn't find a modern interface at all "intuitive".

    Any change to an interface is going to disrupt this, so one thing would be to change the interface only very rarely and carefully.

  • lofaszvanitt 4 minutes ago
    Yubikey for auth, thats all, no fn user/password needed. Presses it when blinks, and done.
  • rr808 2 hours ago
    I quite like the new trend where you can login just by entering the 2fa on SMS or email. Skip the whole username/password.
    • pxc 6 minutes ago
      [delayed]
    • dewey 2 hours ago
      I really dislike these "magic links" as a login procedure as you always have to switch between apps instead of just filling login / 2FA with your password manager. SMS is even worse as it's also insecure.

      As an additional option, I can see the benefit for people who live in their Gmail app and don't have a password manager.

      • lysp 1 hour ago
        The other potential issue is the age of the users.

        Magic emails might work for general users, but for an 80yo who struggles using a mouse. Teaching them to click on links in emails is probably not the best practise.

      • raw_anon_1111 1 hour ago
        On iOS, the code from Messages or email is auto populated. But just don’t do email. Too many things can go wrong.

        But I do love pass keys.

        • dewey 44 minutes ago
          As with a lot of Apple features...it's great when it works but 10% of the time it doesn't and then it's infuriating.

          Often my iMessages arrive on my phone 30 seconds before they arrive on my Mac, so it's quicker to look at the phone notifications and type it in manually than it is to wait for them to arrive and auto-fill to get triggered.

      • morkalork 1 hour ago
        This is a lame complaint but I hate it just because it will by default open the website in a browser session belonging to the email app when you click the magic link. That extra step of finding the menu and telling it to open the signed-in page in the real chrome instance just grinds my UX gears.
    • Gigachad 1 hour ago
      Passkeys are even better since you don't have to pull out your phone or switch to email to grab a code. It just logs you in.

      Also for old people, its impossible to fall for a phishing page using Passkeys. Unlike auth codes where you can type the code in to a fake login page.

      • rr808 51 minutes ago
        I have 3 laptops, a PC and a PC at work and 2 phones. Passkeys still confuse me and I'm not 60 yet.
        • Gigachad 39 minutes ago
          They essentially work automatically without having to understand them. They get synced with your apple and google account or password manager to every device. For a work pc or something you haven't signed in with, Windows and MacOS will show a QR code you scan with your phone and it all just works.

          For an old person who basically just uses an iphone and ipad, you can't screw it up and you can't be scammed.

  • OuterVale 2 hours ago
    A valuable approach is to aim for AAA WCAG conformance. Obviously it isn't a perfect way to go about it and there are other considerations here, but at level AAA you're more likely than not ensuring an extremely clear and usable interface.
  • aetherspawn 56 minutes ago
    Put in phone number, get sent an SMS with a code.
  • anyfactor 1 hour ago
    I am really interested in the concept of elder/senior citizen technology. The basic design concept for them is answering "what am I looking at?"

    I created this tool (https://anftr.com/) for some of my ex-colleagues in their early 50s who were trying to navigate the world of office software. They were struggling with Microsoft Word and Excel, and I have seen them yell at ChatGPT and bash their mouses constantly, hoping the computer will load files faster.

    Essentially, you focus on text and video demos. The foundational design concept for elder tech is providing clear instructions and minimizing interactions.

    If you want them to sign in, you should not require them to press a button more than two times.

    To address things they tend to forget, consider a human custodian or "IT concierge" model, please. The reality is that after a certain age, people really struggle to learn new things and prefer talking to a person for help. Technology has its limitations.

    If you are working with users aged 50 to 80, provide them with a phone number and charge a subscription for the service or a one-time payment. It might be borderline exploitative, but I have noticed that elderly individuals want a "solution" rather than a lesson.

    You explain how to do something, and if they are eager to learn, they will. You offer them a solution either way. Please do not create a monetization model for this custodian service and keep the charge as low as possible.

    The money you receive from this serves purposes: it is designed to help them second guess and try to help themselves. If you do not charge for something, they will just keep asking you questions. When you charge for something, they perceive it to have more value compared to it being free.

    Do not prioritize ease of operation that compromises their security.

    • tjmc 24 minutes ago
      54yo here. We (GenX) grew up with computers. It’s the Boomers and Silent Generation that have trouble.
      • ButlerianJihad 15 minutes ago
        I am also 54 years old, and I've grown up with every single user interface conceivable in a computer or device.

        However, though that gives me an advantage in knowledge of how the systems work, I don't think I'm very good at navigating modern user interfaces.

        My hypothesis goes like this: the people who are writing graphical user interfaces today are video gamers. They were playing twitch games and first person shooters until they got hired to program a user interface. The people who write them, and the people who use them, think nothing of split second reaction times and hand-eye coordination in order to navigate a user interface.

        This is a very very bad approach. You should not need reaction times to navigate a user interface of an app that is used for business or what have you. The web is full of dynamic flows and ever-changing presentation. This is very detrimental to our mental health.

        I believe that it's the inconsistent presentation of the interface and the ever-changing buttons and the ever updating methods of interacting that are so detrimental. It can really hurt someone who is on the edge of dementia or mental issues. Even the sanest people must have trouble navigating these things.

        Every office program and every social media app has settings and configuration more complex than flying a 747. We should not need a pilot certification just to get through these settings. The settings multiply quite deliberately, so that they confuse and beguile the user and get us to give up! If the settings panel presents 1000 settings then we are far more likely to just leave them alone then try and manage them all. Especially when they are ephemeral and basically change themselves upon every update!

        The problem is not with elderly people or with their mental status. It is with the very poor presentation and the video games that now rule our everyday life. Even a point of sale or a public computer kiosk is presenting these issues. There is something very wrong with that.

    • acesley180604 1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • Traubenfuchs 1 hour ago
    1. bind user to email

    2. allow login via magic link via email, after login the jwt/cookie/whatever should have no expiration date

    3. (optional) allow one user to have multiple emails + merging accounts/users (call it backup email to collecr multiple user emails in advance, soft nudging only, not mandatory to use the product!)

    4. (optional) offer any other way to login (un+pwd), google oAuth…

    It‘s THAT easy.

    • patatero 21 minutes ago
      Email link and 2FA won't work because old people struggle with switching apps.
  • kartika36363 1 hour ago
    easiest ui is no ui
  • ancienthner 1 hour ago
    I mean the UX is not having dementia and that's entirely another matter. I hate the idea that if you're old you can't use computers like a normal person.
    • yonatan8070 21 minutes ago
      I've assisted my grandparents with the same UIs many times, it's just harder to learn things the older you are.

      For example, there was a service my gradmother used pretty frequently, which required a password change once every 6 months. She memorized the regular login flow, but she always called us for help when the flow broke and asked her to invent a new password, provide the old password, and confirm with an SMS code.

      None of it is inherintly complex or difficult, but when you're at that age, and not super tech-savvy to begin with, computers are super confusing.