8 comments

  • Frieren 1 hour ago
    > The LLM companies are not picking on me in particular, they are pounding every site on the net.

    Why is not this a criminal offense? They are hurting business for profit (or for higher valuation as they probably have no profit at all).

    Why are corporations allowed to do with impunity what could land even a teenager years in prison? Is there no rule of law anymore?

    The five-year and ten-year penalties kick in only when the government can show the offense caused at least $5,000 in losses across all victims during a one-year period. https://legalclarity.org/what-are-the-punishments-for-a-ddos...

    • maplethorpe 12 minutes ago
      > Why are corporations allowed to do with impunity what could land even a teenager years in prison? Is there no rule of law anymore?

      Those laws are intended to protect corporations. If corporations are the ones doing the scraping, it doesn't make sense for the same laws to affect them.

    • budududuroiu 1 hour ago
      Normative vs prerogative state [1]. See US v. Swartz compared to Meta use of LibGen for Llama

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_state_(model)

      • dannyobrien 43 minutes ago
        So, I knew Aaron and I definitely would not presume to predict what he would have thought, but I’d point out there is a sizeable state space where he should never have been prosecuted, and scraping by others including large commercial companies should not prosecutable on the same grounds.

        I repeat what Aaron’s friends and lawyers said at the time: we were going to fight that case, and we were going to win.

    • reddozen 50 minutes ago
      Because the law deals with intent. The intent for a 12 year old skiddie with a ddos box is to harm someone else's internet. the intent of big scrapers is to collect data. if you want to make the latter illegal then vote for that instead of loading it with the normative baggage of the former.

      It's the same problem as why Occupy Wallstreet fell apart: bunch of losers who don't understand the system screech about the system. because they don't understand it, they can't offer any meaningful dialogue about how to fix it beyond screeching.

    • tempest_ 1 hour ago
      Because might makes right and any entity with the power to legally put up a fight is in on the game (or wants to be)
    • heavyset_go 1 hour ago
      We've already established that computer crime and IP laws apply to normies and not tech companies
    • spiderfarmer 19 minutes ago
      I have added a DB replica server just to keep my website from succumbing to AI bot traffic.
    • legohead 56 minutes ago
      adapt or die

      waiting on the govt to do something is a path of failure

    • will4274 1 hour ago
      It's a bit more like a physical business with a "public welcome" policy like a coffee shop going viral and then having tens of thousands of people walking in and taking pictures but not buying coffee. It's disruptive, but not illegal.

      Acme.com is welcome to require authentication for all pages but their home page, which would quickly cause the traffic to drop. They don't want to do this - like the coffee shop, they want to be open to public, and for good reasons.

      Sometimes the use profile changes dramatically in a short time. 15 years ago, Netflix created the video streaming market and shared bandwidth capacity that had been excessive before wasn't enough. 15 years before that, Google did the same thing when they created search and started driving tremendous traffic to text based websites which had spread through word of mouth before.

      Turns out the micro transaction people probably had the right idea.

    • avazhi 1 hour ago
      Is what an offence lol? Bot scraper traffic?

      How do you think search engines work?

      • spiderfarmer 17 minutes ago
        They work because they offer ways to opt out, they honor crawl delay, setting ideal scraping times, IndexNow, etc.

        And they give you real, valuable traffic in return.

  • davidsojevic 1 hour ago
    I suspect part of the issue is that people are still using things like `acme.com` and `demo.com` as an example domain in their documentation and tests instead of relying on `example.com` which is reserved exactly for this purpose [0]

    [0]: https://www.iana.org/domains/reserved

    • spiderfarmer 20 minutes ago
      A small part. On my server AI bots outnumber real visitors 300 to one.
  • chupchap 1 hour ago
    Bot traffic is crazy even for smaller sites, but still manageable. I was getting 2,000 visitors a day on my infrequently updated website, but after I blocked all the bots via Cloudflare it went back to the normal double digit visitor count.
    • spiderfarmer 14 minutes ago
      I have 6M pages across 8 domains. I have 10 unique IP residential bots per second working hard to scrape every single page.
  • arjie 42 minutes ago
    The only real solution is to put Anubis in front. For me, I just use Cloudflare in front and that suffices. But it's only a few thousand per hour by default. My homeserver can handle that quite well on its own.
  • kristianp 1 hour ago
    > Nearly all of them were for non-existent pages.

    Do any webservers have a feature where they keep a list in memory of files/paths that exist?

  • JohnTHaller 1 hour ago
    Series of Chinese LLM scrapers kept PortableApps.com running slow and occasionally unresponsive for 2 weeks.
  • superkuh 1 hour ago
    There are plenty of local LLMs out there run by humans that play nice. It's not the LLMs that are the problem. It's the corporations. That's the commonality. Human people aren't doing this. These corporate legal persons are a much more dangerous and capable form of non-human intelligence with non-human motives than LLMs (which are not doing the scraping or even calling the tools which are sending the HTTP requests). And they have lobbied their way to legal immunity to most of their crimes.
    • happyopossum 1 hour ago
      > Human people aren't doing this

      Who do you think writes these scrapers? Well, I mean aside from the vibe coded ones.

  • avazhi 1 hour ago
    > Someone really ought to do something about it.

    What is bro proposing here?